Differences In Pitcher Release Points

by Jeff Zimmerman on Apr 4, 2011 3:28 PM EDT

I am wondering if anyone knows of any pitchers that have a release point for a pitch that is significantly different than other pitches the pitcher throws. After the AL Central Leading Kansas City Royals first game, I notice that rookie Tim Collin's release point for his curve balls were about 1 foot different as seen in this plot:

He threw again yesterday and his release was still about a foot off, but not as bad:

Looking through the rest of the AL Central Leading Kansas City Royals pitchers, Bruce Chen releases his cutter at completely different arm slot (about one foot different):

Even Scott Kazmir, the Royals opposing starter yesterday, in his 1 2/3 innings yesterday had a nice tight release pattern:

I have looked at many pitcher Pitch FX plots over the years, but have never seen such a difference in release points especially in the horizontal direction. Now I have seemed to find two pitchers with varying release points. I would like to figure out how common this variance is and how the pitcher compares to his fellow pitchers. Can you please let me know if any other pitchers have such different release points? Thanks.

Thanks to BrooksBaseball.net for the PitchFX information.

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Not Extremely Uncommon, though horizontal differences are odd.

Eric Bedard is known for a clearly higher release point of his curve (as is to a lesser extent Jon Niese). Still, a horizontal difference is odd. I suspect it’s a sample size issue here. Lets check it out:

Correcting for release points being at 55 feet, we find:
The most extreme split this year between the release points of his curveball in the horizontal direction, that belongs to Ted Lilly. Last year, Lilly only had a horizontal difference between his curve and other pitches of 4.14 inches. This year it’s over 11 inches.

Collins is #2 on this list (ignoring guys who have thrown 1-3 Curves), with a difference in release points of just over 6 inches. Behind him in the 5 inch difference area are Jorge De La Rosa, Javy Vazquez, and Carlos Zambrano. These numbers are higher than last year.

As a result, I think that the release point is not to be worried about just yet. It’s very well could decrease, just like Lilly’s will, and all of these guys had lower differences last year. Just outliers of small sample sizes, nothing more.

Last year, Horizontally, Dan Haren shows a 5 .4 inch gap between what is called his curveball by MLBAM and everything else he throws. Heath Bell is similar at 5.2 inches.

I’m very much not convinced either that this makes a difference on a pitch’s effectiveness.

by garik16 on Apr 4, 2011 5:08 PM EDT reply actions

The Lilly thing appears to be due to two release points, with one not having the curve.

He had a similar phenomenon for part of last year, though not for all of it. I guess he just switched his location on the rubber? No idea there.

by garik16 on Apr 4, 2011 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions

With Collins, it is for sure an arm angle

After two games, I can pick it up on his delivery. It is a killer. I wonder since he is 5’7’’’ (on a good day), he has position his arm more horizontal to get the curve action.

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by Jeff Zimmerman on Apr 4, 2011 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions

Obviously, I haven't watched him in person.

But I caution as to going with the “tipping” angle so quickly. Jon Niese I swear I can tell when it’s a curve, but I’m looking for it, and batters have a very little time to process the release point information as “tipping.”

The horizontal difference is odd, but I don’t see why it’d be different than a vertical difference.

Anyhow, I’m going to do a write up on Collins on Friday.

by garik16 on Apr 4, 2011 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions

Two things occur to me

One is that Tim Collins has the Okajima release point. It’s very rare for a lefty to be releasing the ball to the third base side of the centerline.

The other is that horizontal release point, particularly as measured at 50 feet, varies most based on where in the zone the pitcher is aiming horizontally. I don’t particularly see that happening in the 3/31 game, though, so that may not apply so much here.

Chen did start using two arm angles at the beginning of 2010, but I think he throws all his other pitches from both arm angles, and the cutter only from the higher arm angle. That makes some sense as he would be defeating the cutting action by dropping down, and it would just be a slow but straight pitch.

Winner, Beyond the Box Score 32 Predictions Contest, 2009

by Mike Fast on Apr 4, 2011 11:40 PM EDT reply actions