Why I'm Not Buying the Yankees (at least, not yet)
In Beyond the Box Score's weekly rankings, we find the Yankees currently sitting in 8th place. Unlike the Rays and the Red Sox, the NY Yankees (along with the Blue Jays) have managed to come out of the gate quite well this year, leading the American League east with a 9-5 record. They've knocked an incredible 27 home runs to start the season, with six players hitting four or more so far (Alex Rodriguez, Curtis Granderson, Jorge Posada, Robinson Cano, Mark Teixeira, and Russell Martin).
As amazing as that is it's one of the biggest factors giving me pause in buying into the Yankees at this point.
When you look at how they've scored their runs and combine that with how their pitchers have performed it's hard to step back and say objectively that this team is among the elite teams in baseball.
Let's start with their offense. Those 27 home runs are largely the product of a home run to fly ball (HR/FB) rate of over 20%. Generally speaking, teams average about 7-8% for the year. The Yankees are certainly not average given their lineup and their home ball park, but a rate of 20% is very high. Last year, the Yankees finished with a HR/FB rate of a little over 12% and 10.6% in 2009. Even if we given them a 12% rate this year, they should have hit 16 home runs, not 27.
For some perspective on what that does to their runs scored, holding all else constant, a decrease from 20% to 12% would decrease their runs scored from 77 to 65. Even if we adjust for their low batting average on balls in play (BABIP) so far (.260 vs. .300), they still should only have scored 68 runs.
Generally speaking, it wouldn't be too shocking if the Yankees finish with a solid offense. What's more interesting is their pitching.
Through 14 games, the Yankees have given up 68 runs--12th most in the league. That certainly isn't horrible, but it also isn't good. I actually think it could be worse--much worse.
The Yankees staff has the 6th most beneficial FIP-xFIP difference in the league (-.036). Essentially, isolating their K's, BB's, and HR's allowed we find them at 10th best in the league (3.77). But given what we would expect based upon the average HR/FB rate they should actually be 20th in the league (4.13).
Additionally, the staff has the 19th highest K/BB ratio, and the 18th highest K/9-BB/9. Combine that with the fact that they have a line drive rate (LD%) of 23.10% (highest in all of baseball) and you have to be worried about their abilitly to keep runs off the board long-term.
If the pitching isn't going to get much better (with current personal it's hard to see, but the Yankees can certainly make mid-season moves), and with the offense likely to come back to earth a bit given the inflated HR%, it's hard to say that the Yankees are an elite team or a sure thing to win the AL East right now. That's not to say a few mid-season moves can't right the ship. But if you ask me today I can't honestly say that I'm buying just yet.
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We'll be fine.
The stats so far are SSS and of course you can say we’re going to get worse, but I believe the Yankees will be a Wild Card at the least.
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It’s certainly true that they would have a much worse record to date if not for the barrage of HRs and that they can’t continue to hit them at the rate they have. But I think the way that they have won the games is really the fluke and not that they won the games. No, they (esp. Posada and Russell Martin) won’t continue to hit HRs like that over the course of the season. I’d also think it’s fair to assume that their inability to score except by HRs is also a bit of a small sample size fluke. Do you really think that Gardner is a .140 hitter and that they’ll continue playing him if he is? Jeter’s best days are behind him but I think it’s fair to say that his slow start is at least partly the result of his efforts to revamp his swing and that he’ll perform better once he gets his timing down. Swisher only has 2 extra base hits and can’t seem to hit lefthanded. Granderson is hitting lefties but not righties. Posada only has 7 hits. Tex has hit for power but had a week long terrible slump also. So yes, they will score less by homerun but also more by singles and doubles strung together. Also, their pitching has been killed by Phil Hughes and to a much lesser extent, Rafael Soriano. Even if you assume that Hughes won’t get his velocity back, his replacement won’t pitch as terribly as he did for 3 starts. I don’t think they look like a team that will make it far in the playoffs without better pitching but they will win a lot of regular season games based on great offense and decent pitching.
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What was your opinion of them pre-season?
Because the strong consensus had them as the AL Wild Card, at worst. I don’t see how that has changed, especially with weak starts from other teams that they were presumed to be competing with (BOS, TB, MIN, CHW, DET, OAK).
RU RAH RAH
RU RAH RAH
I think Boston wins the AL East
but after evaluating my pre-season thoughts with what I’ve seen so far, I still think they’re a 90+ win team and if so, they must be a good team. So when you’re not buying them are you not buying them as what? A WS contender? AL East contender? Best AL team contender?
RU RAH RAH
RU RAH RAH
An elite team
I mentioned that in the article
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by Bill Petti on Apr 18, 2011 9:56 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Ok, I must have missed that.
I was just wondering what your base expectations for them were. Thank you.
RU RAH RAH
RU RAH RAH
No worrries
I honestly wasn’t sure they’d make the playoffs this year, even though they would play well. I thought other teams had gotten better and the fact that the Yankees’ pitching was such a mess was a red flag for me (red flag for any team, really). Like I said, I am not burying them, just not ready to call them one of the elite teams yet.
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I wasn't sold on them making the playoffs
Largely due to the lack of starting pitching.
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by Bill Petti on Apr 18, 2011 9:55 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
If they were an elite team last year...
and they only got better this year, why on earth would they NOT be an elite team?
People are underrating this Yankee squad so hard it’s ridiculous.
That's questionable, whether they got better
The biggest issue for me is and has been the pitching, specifically the starting pitching (or lack thereof). They certainly got worse in this area over the off-season, and that’s why I am not completely sold on them yet. So far they haven’t given me a reason to change my mind, at least not from what I’ve seen out of the gate.
I don’t think it’s unreasonable to view their pitching as a big fat question mark.
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Yeah, did they really get better?
Take out Pettitte and Vazquez and replace them with Nova and Garcia.
Take out Wood and replace him with Soriano.
Take out Cervelli and replace him with Martin.
Take out Thames and replace him with Jones.
Take out Aceves/Moseley/Mitre and replace him with Feliciano.
A-Rod, Teixeira, Posada and Jeter firmly move another year away from their primes.
Tough to say they got better, particularly given the way Hughes has started the season.
Yes, my real name is actually Satchel.
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by Satchel Price on Apr 19, 2011 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Did they really get worse in pitching?
Javier Vazquez was below replacement level last year. They lost Pettitte, but he only pitched around (without looking it up), 120 innings and an unoutstanding rate? Garcia will be within around a win of what Pettitte produced in the same #IP. Assume Ivan Nova is replacement level, and I think you can bound the pitching wins in the rotation by a 1.5 difference.
And on top of that, they bolstered their bullpen by replacing Wood with Soriano. Even if you assume that the Yankees got worse on pitching by say, 1.5 wins, and remained constant on offense, does this loss of around 2 wins turn the elite 2010 Yankees into a non-elite team?
I will be impressed if you can make a convincing argument for that.
I'd say yes
If we have to compare this year to last year (which I don’t think is necessary to have doubts about this year)…
I don’t think Garcia will be as close to Pettitte (why assume Garcia is anything other than replacement level over the course of the season?). And Pettite pitched very well when he was in there (both regular season and playoffs). And Hughes looks like a different pitcher this year.
Maybe the bullpen gives them a boost this year, but Soriano hasn’t exactly lit it up (.364 BABIP and an xFIP of 5.45 in an incredibly small sample size so far) and that pen is going to get seriously taxed with the rotation being what it is and the AL East schedule.
Looking to the past is nice, but I also look at what’s happening now and their performance so far has to make you wonder what happens when the unsustainable numbers correct themselves. You are assuming they will perform the same as last year on offense, I don’t.
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" (why assume Garcia is anything other than replacement level over the course of the season?)"
Uh, because historically he is?
“Looking to the past is nice, but I also look at what’s happening now and their performance so far has to make you wonder what happens when the unsustainable numbers correct themselves. "
Okay, sure, but you’re looking at a miniscule sample-size. I’ll trust last season’s 162 game data as opposed to 15 games this season. II think most people would.
I don’t know why you assume such a huge nosedive in production from all the players. It just seems like you have zero backing for this.
I don't assume a huge nose dive, just a decline
And you cant expect Garcia to pitch like he did during his prime. That makes no sense. What’s he done the last few years? That’s more relevant than career data at this point.
And I am not saying the Yankees are toast, just that some data to date, even just a sss, is concerning. Not sure why this is so controversial.
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by Bill Petti on Apr 19, 2011 7:17 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
It's controversial because you're putting more weight into 15 games than 162
I’m not expecting Garcia to pitch like he did in his prime. But last year he put up 1.3 WAR in 157 innings, as opposed to Pettitte’s 2.3 in 129. That’s not a huge difference. Not huge enough to take them from elite to non-elite, and really, this and a potential decline from Hughes are the only arguments you’ve made from elite to non-elite.
And if you’re really convinced that you can draw many meaningful trends from 16 games (hint: you can’t), then here’s a conclusion to put down: Freddy Garcia is an ace and maybe better than Pettitte, putting up a 3.34/4.17 FIP/xFIP.
I’d love to know how the offense declines but doesn’t nose-dive to take a, say, 94 win team on paper last year to a non-elite team this year with the bullpen getting a boost.
Texeira just turned 31 last week. He’s still in his prime. Given that he OPS’ed .559 through the end of April and .694 in September while playing through a foot injury, I’d be shocked if he didn’t have a much better year. I get the age issues and Jeter hasn’t looked better this year either. But other than Jeter, Cano, Swisher and Gardner, the rest of the lineup is likely to hit better not worse than last year even given age issues. A-Rod looks the best he has since the hip injury. Granderson is hitting lefties. Posada should benefit from not catching. It would be very surprising if Tex didn’t hit better baring an injury. Chavez is also a big upgrade on the bench.
When you think about their pitching, remember that 68 games last year were started by Vasquez, AJ or Dustin Moseley. Vasquez and Burnett were terrible last year. Hughes wasn’t very good in the second half either. The rotation doesn’t look like a great playoff rotation but if Burnett is better and Hughes returns with increased veloclity and they add an arm at some point in the season, it is not hard to think that the pitching might be better than last year. Granted, we need to see more from Burnett to pronounce him fixed.
They also do have plenty of question marks still but also a deep farm system to make upgrades mid-season. I guess it all depends on what you mean by an elite team. They made the AL Championship series last year but I could probably accept an argument that they weren’t really an elite team because they just didn’t have enough starting pitching. If they were elite last year though, I’d say they are this year also.
Just an observation
But on the whole, the starting line-up for New York is pretty much on target for their pre-season projected wOBA. Fangraphs’ ZiPS’s projections (and I just averaged them both) had the team posting a .356 OBA, and thus far they’ve put up .355. There’s definitely a lot of weird stuff going into that .355—hot starts (A-Rod), cold starts (Gardner), weird starts (Posada), an unsustainably high HR/FB, an unsustainably low BABIP—but the end result is still roughly what was expected from the team.
So I think it’s tough to put too many question marks on their offensive production thus far, at least. The pitching is a different story, though that’s been a question mark since well before the season. Hughes’ production so far definitely throws more problems into the equation, but other than that, I don’t see how the performance so far changes the pre-season assessment. Granted, Hughes is a huge factor in this pitching rotation, but is he enough to bring the team down (or up)?
I guess I just don’t think NY’s performance so far has really been enough to change our pre-season assessment in either direction. If you didn’t think they were an elite team going into the season, and it doesn’t sound like you did, then I agree that their performance so far has not been enough to change your mind. But I think they’re basically performing as expected: a whopping offense that scores tons of runs, and a rotation just good enough to keep them in most games long enough to clobber out a win (and, of course, a bullpen that’ll hold far more wins than it gives away). Whether or not that adds up to an elite team is certainly up for debate, though.
Not to quibble with an otherwise good article, but this:
Generally speaking, teams average about 7-8% for the year.
caught my attention. Isn’t the HR/FB% generally 10.5%?
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
Thought the same thing
For individual pitchers that might be the case, but when I looked at team HR/FB in the AL the overall average has hovered between 7-8% since about 2003.
Columnist at Beyond the Box Score
So is the NL average 13% to make up for the discrepancy? That seems highly unlikely. Also, how could individual pitchers have a different HR/FB than the aggregate?
Adopted father of Chris Lincecum, without whom (quite literally) Timmy would not exist.
No clue
Haven’t delved into it—just know what the team and league data says on Baseball-Reference.
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