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Young Pitching: Do You Prefer Atlanta or Tampa?

Now, there are lots of teams with good young pitching. But at this point, two teams seem to be ahead of the curve when it comes to building future pitching staffs: the Tampa Bay Rays and the Atlanta Braves. Presumably you all know about Tampa Bay's ridiculous wealth of pitching talent already, given that prospect evaluators seem to rave about a new set of young Tampa pitchers every year. But it feels like people haven't gone nearly as crazy about Atlanta's young pitching in general; that might just because there's a lot to be excited about with that team in general, though, what with that Heyward kid and all. Because, frankly, Atlanta may have the most impressive stable of young pitchers in baseball.

And that's the question I've set out to ask today: if you had to select one organization's top young pitchers for the next 15 years, which would you choose? And to clarify, by young pitcher, I mean any pitcher under age 25 as of Opening Day. So, do you bank on David Price, Jeremy Hellickson, and a couple of the younger Rays prospects to come through? Or would you go with Atlanta, led by the likes of Tommy Hanson and Julio Teheran?

It's certainly not an easy choice to make, but I'll try to make things easier for everyone by outlining exactly which pitchers I'm talking about within each organization, and what my thoughts are on the entire situation. I'm curious to see what you guys think, because we all know how elite young pitching can sway a division for a long time. And if you choose the "other" option in the poll, I'd love to hear which organization's pitching you'd prefer in the comments.

Star-divide

The Atlanta Braves

The names: Tommy Hanson, Jair Jurrjens, Brandon Beachy, Kris Medlen, Craig Kimbrel, Julio Teheran, Mike Minor, Randall Delgado, J.J. Hoover, Billy Bullock, Arodys Vizcaino and Carlos Perez

We'll start with Atlanta, because I think that people need a reminder of how ridiculously good this club's young pitching is. In the MLB rotation, they already boast 24-year-olds Tommy Hanson and Brandon Beachy, but 25-year-olds Jair Jurrjens and Kris Medlen are currently on the disabled list, too.  We can toss an elite reliever in there, too, with 22-year-old closer Craig Kimbrel. Hanson's already one of the best starters in the NL with a 3.17 career ERA, Jurrjens has two quality seasons under his belt already even with injury struggles over the past two years, and Beachy should be able to develop into a good No. 4 starter. Medlen may end up in the bullpen long-term after Tommy John surgery, but he should be able to develop into a good set-up man for the potentially elite Kimbrel.

The depth in the minors is arguably as impressive, too. 20-year-old Julio Teheran was rated as the best pitching prospect in baseball by Baseball America, BP's Kevin Goldstein and ESPN's Keith Law coming into the season. He's already in Triple-A, and has legitimate ace potential. 23-year-old lefty Mike Minor joins Teheran in the Triple-A Gwinnett rotation, and while he can't match Teheran's upside, he's already MLB-ready, and got strong top-100 rankings from BA, Goldstein and Law: 37, 26 and 61, respectively.

The pitching continues from there, too. 21-year-old Randall Delgado is already in Double-A, and he was rated as a top-60 prospect by all three evaluators. He's joined at Double-A by 23-year-old J.J. Hoover, also one of Atlanta's top prospects, and 23-year-old closer Billy Bullock, a flamethrower with closer-upside that was acquired from Minnesota for Rule 5 pick Scott Diamond. At the lower levels, they have two more power pitchers with huge upside: 20-year-old righty Arodys Vizcaino at High Single-A and 19-year-old lefty Carlos Perez at Low Single-A.

The Tampa Bay Rays

The names: David Price, Wade Davis, Jeremy Hellickson, Jake McGee, Alexander Torres, Alex Cobb, Matt Moore, Chris Archer, Joseph Cruz, Nick Barnese, Jake Thompson, Alex Colome, Enny Romero

If you thought that Atlanta's depth was impressive, think of Tampa Bay as the American League equivalent. Or think of Atlanta as Tampa's National League equivalent. Whatever. They're both absolutely loaded.

Tampa is already depending on their young pitching at the MLB level, with 25-year-olds David Price and Wade Davis, along with 24-year-old Jeremy Hellickson, taking key roles in the starting rotation. 24-year-old lefty Jake McGee has a similarly prominent role in Tampa's bullpen, where he could end up as closer before the season's over. It's not clear that Davis or Hellickson has ace-upside like Price, but both can develop into good No. 2/3 starters, and the Rays have more than enough upside in the minors anyways.

Delving into that minor league pitching talent, heading Triple-A Durham's rotation are 23-year-olds Alexander Torres and Alex Cobb. Neither was rated as a top-100 prospect, but both have good stuff and strong track records- these are still some very good pitching prospects.

Things get a lot more interesting at Double-A, though, where Tampa Bay deploys their two best pitching prospects, Matt Moore and Chris Archer. The 21-year-old Moore is considered an elite pitching prospect with ace-upside; all three evaluators had him among their top-16 prospects in all of baseball. Archer, a 22-year-old acquired from Chicago in the Matt Garza deal, doesn't have Moore's upside and some project a future move to the bullpen, but his stuff is excellent. BA has Archer much higher than Goldstein does (No. 27 to No. 70), but that just reflects the polarizing opinions on his projection. Tampa has two more interesting young pitchers at Double-A, too: 22-year-olds Joseph Cruz and Nick Barnese are often mentioned when discussing Tampa's best young pitchers.

And part of what makes Tampa so impressive, though, is the fact that they're still churning talent at the lower levels. 21-year-old Jake Thompson and 22-year-old Alex Colome head the High Single-A rotation, and 20-year-old Enny Romero is certainly the most impressive arm at the low Single-A level. 

My Decision

Holy crap, this is difficult. Both teams have great starters and a great reliever in the majors right now, and potentially great starters across nearly every level of their minor league systems. I'll try to break this down a little, I guess, to simplify things a bit.

Ready for 2011

Atlanta: Hanson, Jurrjens, Minor, Beachy, Kimbrel, Medlen

Tampa: Price, Davis, Hellickson, McGee

Ready for 2012

Atlanta: Teheran, Delgado, Hoover, Bullock

Tampa: Archer, Torres, Cobb, Cruz

Ready for 2013 and beyond

Atlanta: Vizcaino, Perez

Tampa: Moore, Barnese, Thompson, Colome, Romero

Okay, so this simplifies things, a little. Or at least it helps to put into perspective exactly when these guys are expected to contribute at the MLB level. Atlanta's clearly got more guys closer to the majors, but Moore could move more quickly than I expect.

The near-term advantage of getting value from guys like Hanson, Jurrjens, Minor, Kimbrel and Beachy is obvious, but is it significantly higher than Price-Hellickson-Wade-McGee? Frankly I might take Tampa Bay's foursome over Atlanta's quintet with all things considered. Moving on, you realize that if Atlanta's impressive depth doesn't trump Tampa Bay in the next couple years, the Rays will probably gain the advantage at some point given their superior talent below Triple-A.

Teheran, Delgado, Vizcaino and Perez are impressive, but the Moore, Archer, Colome, Romero group is somewhat comparable. And then you try to compare Torres, Cobb, Cruz, Barnese and Thompson with Hoover and Bullock, and the advantage there is palpable. So Atlanta has slight advantages in terms of young pitching at the MLB level and elite talent within the minor leagues, but Tampa Bay has a clear advantage in depth when it comes to minor league pitching depth.

Do you take Atlanta's slight advantages in proximity to the majors and peak-level talent, or Tampa Bay's clear advantage in lower level depth?

In the end, I'd probably take Atlanta. But you might get a different answer if you ask me next week.

Poll
if you had to select one organization's top young pitchers for the next 15 years, which would you choose?
Tampa Bay
76 votes
Atlanta
264 votes
Other
25 votes

365 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 12 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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I expected Tampa to fair better, though obviously we're only a dozen votes in

Here are a few options for young pitching other than Atlanta and Tampa:

Kansas City: Mike Montgomery, John Lamb, Danny Duffy, Jake Odorizzi, Chris Dwyer, Aaron Crow, Tim Collins, Jeremy Jeffress, Nathan Adcock, Tim Melville, Louis Coleman, Robinson Yambati, Yordano Ventura, Jason Adam, Will Smith

Baltimore: Brian Matusz, Zach Britton, Chris Tillman, Jake Arrieta, Brad Bergesen, Brandon Erbe, Wynn Pelzer, Dan Klein, Ryan Berry, Robert Bundy, Parker Bridwell

NY Yankees: Phil Hughes, Joba Chamberlain, Ivan Nova, Hector Noesi, Andrew Brackman, Dellin Betances, Manny Banuelos, Adam Warren, Graham Stoneburner, David Phelps, Brett Marshall, Scott Allen

Toronto: Kyle Drabek, Brett Cecil, Marc Rzepczynski, Zach Stewart, Aaron Sanchez, Deck McGuire, Asher Wojciechowski, Chad Jenkins, Henderson Alvarez, Noah Syndergaard

Detroit: Jacob Turner, Rick Porcello, Andy Oliver, Daniel Schlereth, Casey Crosby, Chance Ruffin, Brayan Villarreal, Drew Smyly

LA Dodgers: Clayton Kershaw, Kenley Jansen, Zach Lee, Rubby De La Rosa, Chris Withrow, Allen Webster, Aaron Miller, Ethan Martin, Scott Elbert, Garrett Gould, Josh Lindblom, Nathan Eovaldi

Cincinnati: Aroldis Chapman, Johnny Cueto, Homer Bailey, Mike Leake, Travis Wood, Kyle Lotzkar, Brad Boxberger, Ismael Guillon, Donnie Joseph

Pittsburgh: Jameson Taillon, Stetson Allie, Luis Heredia, Rudy Owens, Brad Lincoln, Jeff Locke, Bryan Morris, Zach Von Rosenberg, Colton Cain, Justin Wilson

Yes, my real name is actually Satchel.
I'm a columnist for Beyond the Box Score, an SB Nation blog.
Oh, I'm on Twitter, too.

by Satchel Price on Apr 14, 2011 1:45 PM EDT reply actions  

Really like the Dodger arms. Many of them didn’t perform last year but they have a large quantity of power arms that should rebound. They are on par talent wise with Atlanta and Tampa IMHO.

"It's going to be strange watching There's Something About Mary again, knowing Brett Favre was the biggest stalker of them all"

by jeg on Apr 14, 2011 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

San Francisco

Not as deep as these teams, but six of the young pitchers in the organization have already established a significant, productive talent level in the major leagues, while most of these other teams predominantly boast prospects. These young arms were the best four starters and best two relievers (Romo in addition to Wilson) in a pitching staff that had an 1.78 ERA last September. To use a non-arbitrary cutoff, the staff was 3rd in WAR last season, with Zito the only non-homegrown player in the top 7 contributors, as well as the only non-homegrown player in above-2.0 WAR contributors.

San Francisco has no competitor among any of the teams mentioned as far as has established major league talent in young pitching goes. I didn’t vote for them outright, but I’m more than a little bemused by the fact that they don’t crack this top-10 list.

If I were to rank the young pitching by the poll’s criterion, I wouldn’t place San Francisco any lower than 4th.

My adopted son: Jose Casilla.

Man of the Crazy Sink. And owner of a 103 ZiPS ERA+ in 2011.

by dregarx on Apr 15, 2011 6:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think that I agree

They have Bumgarner, Sosa, Tanner, and Casilla on the 40-man roster. In the minors, they have Wheeler, Hembree, Surkamp, Kickham, Main, etc.

I’m not sure if you’re missing this, but Lincecum, Cain and Runzler don’t make the cut off- they’re all 26.

Yes, my real name is actually Satchel.
I'm a columnist for Beyond the Box Score, an SB Nation blog.
Oh, I'm on Twitter, too.

by Satchel Price on Apr 15, 2011 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

"It's not clear that Davis or Hellickson has ace-upside like Price"

IDK. Personally, if you asked me who is going to the ace of the staff in 3 years (assuming they are still there), I might take Hellickson over Price.

Rays/Cubs - ObstructedView.net - @Manu_P_Mishra on Twitter

by Mish on Apr 14, 2011 2:44 PM EDT reply actions  

To me the Rays have the better prospects if you are looking over the longterm

I can’t believe Atlanta is winning in a blowout.

I’m going Tampa Bay

I'm an F18, Bro

by Sveet on Apr 14, 2011 3:14 PM EDT reply actions  

I'm similarly surprised.

I mentioned that I prefer Atlanta, but Tampa Bay awfully close.

Yes, my real name is actually Satchel.
I'm a columnist for Beyond the Box Score, an SB Nation blog.
Oh, I'm on Twitter, too.

by Satchel Price on Apr 14, 2011 3:37 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Interesting post

I voted ATL but it was a very hard decision. The poll is favoring ATL heavily but there isn’t many votes in. Both of these teams should have young, good, and cheap pitching for a while which is quite valuable. Also, David Filak and Caleb Brewer are guys I would keep an eye on.

by Braves24 on Apr 14, 2011 3:15 PM EDT reply actions  

Wow, this is tough. I actually might go with Tampa’s because I’m huge on Hellickson and think he’ll be an absolute ace.

To those who voted other, I’d like to hear your reasoning.

"Is Prince Fielder a legitimate threat to your bag of potato chips?" -Bronn (Braun?)

by kauf67 on Apr 14, 2011 4:51 PM EDT reply actions  

Voted Atlanta.

Couple names who belong in the conversation for the Braves not appearing on this list:
Jonny Venters- missed the 25 year old cutoff by two weeks but a dominant LH reliever
Brett Oberholtzer- Underrated stuff from a left handed starter and at least as good a prospect as J.J. Hoover

And the last guy’s prior performances don’t merit consideration for this list but Paul Clemens has great stuff and really improved his command last year.

"It's going to be strange watching There's Something About Mary again, knowing Brett Favre was the biggest stalker of them all"

by jeg on Apr 14, 2011 6:25 PM EDT reply actions  

I think you need another option

Tampa Bay Rays pitchers in the NL West

To Infinity. And BEYOND!!!

by YunelTheLazyLatino on Apr 14, 2011 8:48 PM EDT reply actions  

For the Braves,

there’s also Steve Kent and Dimaster Delgado to consider. The latter just needs to find his footing after missing all of last year after breaking his leg in a car accident.

http://twitter.com/CygnusXS

by cygnusxs on Apr 15, 2011 11:07 AM EDT reply actions  

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