Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Blake Griffin Slam Dunks: NBA Jam Style

Carlos Beltran's (Future) Place in History

5492774121_0abb7989eb_b_medium

(Click to enlarge)

As Carlos Beltran's time with the Mets nears its end, lots of folks are starting to discuss his place in history. His career is far from over, but given his injuries over the past few seasons and his age (33), it's fair to say the inevitable decline is upon us. If you look at players who posted a rWAR >=25 and played greater than 70% of their games in center field in their career and then plot their career WAR Runs Batting and WAR Runs Fielding you get some perspective on where Beltran currently sits among the all time greats.

The image above is a screen shot of an interactive tool I put together (see below the fold--size of bubbles equals career rWAR). Beltran is in a pretty good position heading into his twilight, better than I actually expected. He's almost identical to Hall of Famer Richie Ashburn in terms of Rbat and Rfield. However, most of the CF's that are in the Hall of Fame with less than 200 Rbat are old timers. For Beltran to have a shot, it would appear he has to get over the 200 Rbat threshold to gain serious consideration.

The graphic includes two projected 40-year old Beltrans. The first is modeled on Jim Edmonds and simply took Edmonds' Rbat and Rfield from ages 34-40 and added that to Beltran's current totals. The other is based on Brett Butler. The idea was to get a min-max type projection to see where he might finish and whether he might up relative to current Hall of Fame center fielders.

Here's how the future Emonds Beltran (light red) and Butler Beltran (light blue) stack up:

Star-divide

5492774081_1d9d31f384_b_medium

(Click to enlarge)

The Edmonds Beltran would be in very good company--only one of eight CF's in history with over 200 Rbat and greater than 0 Rfield.Only four players will have a better Rbat--and three of them are in the Hall. Oh, and there's that Edmonds guy, too. Only one will have been better defensively, and his last name is Mays.

What about the Bulter Beltran? Not as good as Edmonds, but still pretty good. The Bulter Beltran assumes that his defensive ability absolutely disappears. He would still be a part of the eight CF's with >=200 Rbat and >=0 Rfield and spatially would sit nestled in with Hall of Famers Larry Doby, Earle Combs, Edd Roush and Kirby Puckett. 

If Beltran manages to have an Edmonds-like 34-40, it will be very difficult to keep him out of the Hall. The interesting thing is we'll have a pretty good idea if he'll get in since Edmonds will be well into the voting process by the time Carlos appears on the ballot.

-------------

Interactive Visualization - Center Fielders

Comment 8 comments  |  1 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

Interesting

The charts are a little hard to read visually, with fielding runs scaled so much larger than batting runs.

Edmonds had a hell of a late-career boom. I wonder if that has become a liability rather than a boost in your HOF case in these suspicious days.

by psiogen on Mar 4, 2011 1:38 PM EST reply actions  

Agreed

but the problem is if you scale them the same it’s hard to really distinguish those CF other than Mays, Speaker, etc.

I am sure the writers will have various opinions on the whole PED thing.

Edmonds had between 4-6 fWAR from 25-28 and then 6-8 fWAR from 30-35, so I guess some might raise an eyebrow there.

Writer at Beyond the Box Score and tortured Mets fan (is there any other kind?)

by Bill Petti on Mar 4, 2011 3:41 PM EST reply actions  

interactive rules

I’d love to see more interactive graphs like this. Allow the masses to do our own on-the-fly analysis. There are incredible presentations using these graphics tools.

Beautiful.

Bring us more Bill!

DH: Where's the party!
Danny: David Howard and Mike Sweeney! Go away! Guys, you're gonna wake up my Mom!

by David Howards Legacy on Mar 4, 2011 8:27 PM EST reply actions  

Thanks!

More than happy to create more interactive stuff. Just takes a lots of data and more time to create, but I’ll definitely try to get more of them up on the site.

Writer at Beyond the Box Score and tortured Mets fan (is there any other kind?)

by Bill Petti on Mar 5, 2011 7:47 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm going to guess

his move to right field will help his WAR in the end. I wouldn’t be surprised if his UZR is ridiculous there. A lot of people are wondering if he’s going to be able to figure it out.. seems highly unlikely one of the best defensive centerfiedlers ever couldn’t handle right field. No reason he shouldn’t be able to get a few starts in center from here to the end as well.

I have a lot of faith in Voltron’s plate discipline, but I’m not so sure about his power output. Right now, he has 280 HRs. How many more would he need to be able to entice HoF voters?

Kicking knowledge in the face.

by BlackOps on Mar 4, 2011 10:42 PM EST reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

We use numbers and stuff.
Community Guidelines
Why be a member?

Follow us on Facebook!

Follow us on Twitter!

SaberGraphics

Yahoo_full_count

MLB Daily Dish

Get the latest MLB Trade Rumors, Transactions, and News at MLB Daily Dish!


Managing Editor:

Jbopp-kc_small Justin Bopp

Columnists:

Adam_small adarowski

Dme_small Satchel Price

Closeup4_small J-Doug

Carlosicon_small Julian Levine

Billy_and_daddy_4th_of_july_small Bill Petti

Featuring:

Dayton_small Jeff Zimmerman

12475953_small Jacob Peterson

Recent_pic_pg_small Patrick Gordon

Btbpro_small Dave Gershman

Me_small Bryan Grosnick

229331_10150183361996591_674441590_6760167_6637860_n3_small Lewie Pollis

Img_3830_small David Fung

30472_1481067225243_1190689185_1381415_997334_n_small Glenn DuPaul

1mnvxku7_small joshuaworn

Set_small MattFilippi18

Photo0011_small Nathaniel Stoltz