Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: This Week In GIFs

The Hall of Fame Ballot is Going to Get Very Crowded

2016-ballot_medium

Last month, before he climbed the ladder from ESPN to SBNation, Rob Neyer wrote an article that really resonated with me about how congested the Hall of Fame ballot is going to become. There are two problems at play that will cause this to happen:

  1. Hall of Fame voters are holding modern players to a ridiculously high standard. Bert Blyleven ranks 13th all time (all time!) in WAR (according to Baseball-Reference). But it took him fourteen tries to get in the Hall. Jeff Bagwell is the top position player not in the Hall by wWAR. He struggled with just 41.7% of the vote. Blyleven was the top post-1900 pitcher not in by wWAR, but right after him was Kevin Brown. Brown, of course, fared so poorly (2.1%) that he's off the ballot for good. We're talking about the top eligible players by wWAR since 1900—and they couldn't get in. In history. Look at guys like Alan Trammell or Barry Larkin. If they played in a different era, they'd be easy first ballot selections. (Yet, somehow—through all of this—Jim Rice gets in.)
  2. Hall of Fame voters are pretending they are the moral police. They're shunning any player who has not only admitted steroid use or failed a test (Mark McGwire and Rafael Palmeiro), but also anyone who happens to have big muscles (Jeff Bagwell).

How will these two problems affect Hall of Fame voting going forward (assuming voters remain consistent—which is an enormous assumption)?

Star-divide

Over the next several years, we're going to see some interesting debates hit the ballot—for example, Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens (see reason #2), Curt Schilling and Kenny Lofton (see reason #1), and Jim Edmonds and Jim Thome (certainly fit under #1, but if Jeff Bagwell is suspected of #2 then these guys will be, too). The list of interesting—and controversial—candidates is a long one.

I want to stress this: There are a ton of players I believe should be in the Hall of Fame—and a year ago I probably would have assumed most would easily be inducted. But Blyleven's struggles combined with Bagwell's non-election have left me shocked and, quite frankly, confused.

Quite simply, we're going to have a ton of Hall-worthy players hanging around on the ballot.

How bad will it be? Let's make a little projection. I'll start with next year's ballot.

2012 Hall of Fame Ballot
Name Year rWAR
Jeff Bagwell 2nd 79.9
Barry Larkin 3rd 68.9
Larry Walker 2nd 67.3
Edgar Martinez 3rd 67.2
Alan Trammell 11th 66.9
Rafael Palmeiro 2nd 66.0
Tim Raines 5th 64.6
Mark McGwire 6th 63.1
Fred McGriff 3rd 50.5
Bernie Williams 1st 47.3
Dale Murphy 14th 44.2
Brad Radke 1st 40.9
Don Mattingly 12th 39.8
Jack Morris 13th 39.3
Tim Salmon 1st 37.6
Juan Gonzalez 2nd 33.5
Brian Jordan 1st 33.5
Lee Smith 10th 29.7

This includes all players with 30+ WAR along with Lee Smith. Who's going to get in?

Class of 2012: Barry Larkin

That's it. I want to believe Jeff Bagwell will make the jump, but 41% to 75% is too big a jump for one year. I hope we basement dwellers can get him a good boost, though. I figure Bernie Williams, Brad Radke, Tim Salmon, and Brian Jordan will fall off the ballot. Some may disagree with Bernie, but we'll see.

2013 Hall of Fame Ballot
Name Year rWAR
Barry Bonds 1st 171.8
Roger Clemens 1st 128.8
Jeff Bagwell 3rd 79.9
Curt Schilling 1st 67.7
Larry Walker 3rd 67.3
Edgar Martinez 4th 67.2
Alan Trammell 12th 66.9
Craig Biggio 1st 65.3
Rafael Palmeiro 3rd 66.0
Tim Raines 6th 64.6
Mark McGwire 7th 63.1
Sammy Sosa 1st 59.7
Mike Piazza 1st 59.1
Fred McGriff 4th 50.5
David Wells 1st 50.1
Dale Murphy 15th 44.2
Julio Franco 1st 40.6
Steve Finley 1st 40.5
Don Mattingly 13th 39.8
Jack Morris 14th 39.3
Reggie Sanders 1st 38.4
Juan Gonzalez 3rd 33.5
Jeff Cirillo 1st 33.2
Lee Smith 11th 29.7

Some major stars hit the ballot in 2013. Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Curt Schilling, Craig Biggio, Sammy Sosa, and Mike Piazza are the biggest. Bonds, Clemens, Sosa, and Piazza all have the varying degrees of steroid allegations. Heck, even Biggio is being pulled into it. Year #3 might have been a good time for Bagwell to get in, but I can also see voters thinking "Well, if I'm not going to put Bonds or Clemens in, I can't put Bagwell in." That leaves Schilling. And honestly, I feel he's incredibly underrated and will struggle to get in. So, who will actually be inducted?

Hall of Fame Class of 2013: No one

I think we'll have a ton of players in the 25-75% window, but nobody is "clean" enough to get inducted. This ballot will be a media circus. Lost in all of this will be the departure of Dale Murphy from the ballot. Given the number of suspected steroid users on the ballot, Murphy will likely get his highest percentage ever, but still fall significantly short. David Wells and the rest of the new candidates will likely fall off the ballot.

2014 Hall of Fame Ballot
Name Year rWAR
Barry Bonds 2nd 171.8
Roger Clemens 2nd 128.8
Greg Maddux 1st 96.9
Jeff Bagwell 4th 79.9
Frank Thomas 1st 75.9
Mike Mussina 1st 74.6
Tom Glavine 1st 71.6
Curt Schilling 2nd 67.7
Larry Walker 4th 67.3
Edgar Martinez 5th 67.2
Alan Trammell 13th 66.9
Craig Biggio 2nd 65.3
Rafael Palmeiro 4th 66.0
Tim Raines 7th 64.6
Mark McGwire 8th 63.1
Sammy Sosa 2nd 59.7
Jeff Kent 1st 59.4
Mike Piazza 2nd 59.1
Fred McGriff 5th 50.5
Luis Gonzalez 1st 46.3
Kenny Rogers 1st 46.3
Don Mattingly 14th 39.8
Jack Morris 15th 39.3
Moises Alou 1st 38.2
Juan Gonzalez 4th 33.5
Ray Durham 1st 32.7
Lee Smith 12th 29.7

Well, we're finally going to get some inductees. Who will it be?

Hall of Fame Class of 2014: Greg Maddux and Tom Glavine

I think Maddux has a chance to be the first unanimous inductee. Glavine will get in while Mussina doesn't get in right away. Why? Well, because Glavine is a bit overrated (I said "a bit", don't yell at me!) and Mussina seems to be terribly underrated. Once this ballot passes, we'll be able to say that Mussina is the best pitcher outside of the Hall. I always assumed Frank Thomas would coast to a first ballot induction. I also assumed that about Jeff Bagwell. If the voters can make a 'roid case out of Bagwell, they can certainly do it for Thomas. Jeff Kent will also hit the ballot. He'll stay on it, but he won't get inducted (any time soon, if at all). Luis Gonzalez, Kenny Rogers, and the rest will drop off. Jack Morris, in his fifteenth season, will finally drop off.

2015 Hall of Fame Ballot
Name Year rWAR
Barry Bonds 3rd 171.8
Roger Clemens 3rd 128.8
Randy Johnson 1st 89.6
Jeff Bagwell 5th 79.9
Frank Thomas 2nd 75.9
Mike Mussina 2nd 74.6
Pedro Martinez 1st 73.5
Curt Schilling 3rd 67.7
Larry Walker 5th 67.3
Edgar Martinez 6th 67.2
Alan Trammell 14th 66.9
John Smoltz 1st 65.3
Craig Biggio 3rd 65.3
Rafael Palmeiro 5th 66.0
Tim Raines 8th 64.6
Gary Sheffield 1st 63.3
Mark McGwire 9th 63.1
Sammy Sosa 3rd 59.7
Jeff Kent 2nd 59.4
Mike Piazza 3rd 59.1
Fred McGriff 6th 50.5
Carlos Delgado 1st 44.2
Brian Giles 1st 42.7
Nomar Garciaparra 1st 42.6
Don Mattingly 15th 39.8
Tom Gordon 1st 34.4
Juan Gonzalez 5th 33.5
Lee Smith 13th 29.7

Another excellent crop of pitchers hits the ballot, including Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez, and John Smoltz. Who gets in?

Hall of Fame Class of 2015: Randy Johnson and Pedro Martinez

I don't think John Smoltz will have much trouble getting in. I just don't think it'll be on the first ballot. Johnson will get in and I'm fairly certain Pedro gets in (unless someone starts slinging mud). Gary Sheffield's PED ties will hurt him, but he should at least remain on the ballot. He's a worthy candidate if his record was clean. Delgado, Giles, and Nomar will drop off the ballot (though Nomar could stick around a little bit) along with Tom Gordon and Don Mattingly, who will be in his fifteen season.

What does that leave us with? That leaves us with the hypothetical ballot that led off this post: 25 guys who have (at least) a realistic Hall of Fame case hanging around the ballot (well, 24, but I'm not sure exactly when Juan Gonzalez will drop off). I see 18 or so that I would put in.

This is going to be a problem.

Comment 16 comments  |  1 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

Hmm!

Quick note:
If the ballot is ordered by WAR, you’ve got Palmeiro out of order!

Oopsie? Not a big deal.. I will go read the rest of the article now!

by Patrick42 on Feb 7, 2011 9:11 AM EST reply actions  

Ahhh.

Lovely article. I really wish I agreed with you about Morris dropping off, but…

by Patrick42 on Feb 7, 2011 9:15 AM EST reply actions  

Hall Voting

The kid in me wants to scream at how tough it has become to get into the baseball Hall of Fame. Growing up, if someone told me Barry Bonds, Alan Trammell, Frank Thomas, Jeff Bagwell, Roger Clemens, and Mike Piazza would be sitting off the ballot, I’d bet you my entire baseball card collection you were wrong on all accounts.

How would Larkin get in without Tram? Both played for Midwestern teams generally ignored outside their footprint. Their careers are generally equivalent. Any ’80s GM would have gladly traded HOF-er Ozzie Smith for either of these guys. What gives?

If SBNation would let me, I would totally edit that.
www.mgoblog.com

by Misopogon on Feb 7, 2011 9:31 AM EST reply actions  

That's a great question...

I’ve wondered why Larkin is a afterthought after Alomar. But how are either of them ahead of Trammell? I suppose it could be because their offensive numbers LOOK a bit better on the surface, of course before any era adjustment. More of Trammell’s value was tied up in defense and “the little things” that are only now becoming measurable (turning two, non-SB baserunning, etc.).

It’s a good question. He really needs to be in.

On Twitter: @baseballtwit

by adarowski on Feb 7, 2011 9:40 AM EST up reply actions  

Great stuff, Adam.

Yea, it’s just going to get harder and harder for deserving players to get in. I doubt the Hall will change the vote limit per ballot, but if they don’t you are going to end up with a Hall that reflects earlier eras more than recent ones and it doesn’t seem unjustifiable.

Distance in terms of time tends to make us assume that players were that much better than they really were.

Writer at Beyond the Box Score and tortured Mets fan (is there any other kind?)

by Bill Petti on Feb 7, 2011 10:48 AM EST reply actions  

I know it isn’t a good reason— but as far as I can tell, the only players who did not get atleast 5% of the BBWAA vote after a career that included atleast 5000 AB as a Yankee were Roy White, Willie Randolph and Wally Pipp.

Not that I’m saying those three or Williams should be in the HoF, but it has been generally rare foir the Yankees to keep a guy around for that long without being worthy of atleasta couple dozen votes.

IIRC, Roy White is the third highest in rWAR among players who got zero votes from the BBWAA [Toy Cannon and Tanana are definately ahead, might be another or two that I’m forgetting]

by erosen on Feb 7, 2011 11:34 AM EST reply actions  

I think John Smolt'z Beard should be added to the ballot.

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker

by Resolution on Feb 7, 2011 12:25 PM EST reply actions  

lol, didn't even realize I did that

that’s what happens when you’re supposed to be reading/working and pop in for a quick comment I suppose.

At any rate, I’ll agree to the ownership designation being enshrined if it allows the beard to get in.

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker

by Resolution on Feb 7, 2011 5:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Firstly, I think that the steroid cloud will clear a bit as we get further from the era, and more evidence and debate on the discussion joins the record. So while I agree that the ballot will be very crowded, I don’t think that it will be quite the nightmare this seems to suggest.

Secondly, I do not think we will ever have a unanimous election to the Hall of Fame. Ruth, Mays, and Aaron couldn’t get in unanimously, and there is so much politicking about who is or is not a “first-ballot” Hall of Famer, and what that means, and how many years you spend on the ballot being somehow a correlation to your worthiness as a member, there will always be at least one schmuck who will vote no on a Maddux or a Pujols just “on principle.”

Et tu, Ribe?

by Solidarity on Feb 7, 2011 10:42 PM EST reply actions  

I'm a very small hall person.

That’s a fair position to take, but I have to make sure I’m consistent. For me, the threshold for consideration is ~60 WAR and the threshold for entry sits at around ~70-75 WAR. If I fall under this category, is it all right if I vote for one of the best relievers of all time in Hoffman, and presumably Rivera?

My votes for the years you listed are as follows…If I vote for a player once I will vote for him every subsequent time he is on the ballot.

2012: Bagwell (yes, just one.)
2013: Bonds, Clemens (They were the kings of the steroid era. I don’t care how tainted their records are; they played against players who juiced and were two of the best players we’ve ever seen. If you level the playing field, their talent will still stand tall)
2014: Maddux, Thomas
2015: Johnson, Mussina
2016: Griffey, Glavine

In my opinion, if you feel you have to vote for that many eligible players, you have to raise the threshold for the hall, otherwise it will lose its significance. If five players get in per year, we’ll have to build a second Hall by 2030.

M's fan in the Bay, soon to be LA

by perfectstrat on Feb 8, 2011 2:56 AM EST reply actions  

Every player I support would raise the "threshold" of the Hall

There are some real mediocre players in the Hall of Fame.

I’m a small hall guy too. We just happen to have a lot of weak players in there already. The guys I support would raise it up a notch.

Yes, guys like Alan Trammell and Jim Edmonds would raise the Hall UP a notch.

On Twitter: @baseballtwit

by adarowski on Feb 8, 2011 10:28 AM EST up reply actions  

Can you start showing FanGraphs WAR next to rWAR

on these lists? Or average them, or something…

by SeanP on Feb 8, 2011 4:37 PM EST reply actions  

Averaging won't work, since they're on different baselines.

I tend to stick to rWAR since that’s what’s available from 1871-present for pitchers and hitters (and most of my research covers all of history). But for things like this, I’ll try to remember to include both. Thanks!

On Twitter: @baseballtwit

by adarowski on Feb 8, 2011 10:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

We use numbers and stuff.
Community Guidelines
Why be a member?

Follow us on Facebook!

Follow us on Twitter!

SaberGraphics

Yahoo_full_count

MLB Daily Dish

Get the latest MLB Trade Rumors, Transactions, and News at MLB Daily Dish!


Managing Editor:

Jbopp-kc_small Justin Bopp

Columnists:

Adam_small adarowski

Dme_small Satchel Price

Closeup4_small J-Doug

Carlosicon_small Julian Levine

Billy_and_daddy_4th_of_july_small Bill Petti

Featuring:

Dayton_small Jeff Zimmerman

12475953_small Jacob Peterson

Recent_pic_pg_small Patrick Gordon

Btbpro_small Dave Gershman

Me_small Bryan Grosnick

229331_10150183361996591_674441590_6760167_6637860_n3_small Lewie Pollis

Img_3830_small David Fung

30472_1481067225243_1190689185_1381415_997334_n_small Glenn DuPaul

1mnvxku7_small joshuaworn

Set_small MattFilippi18

Photo0011_small Nathaniel Stoltz