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All True Red Sox Team

Introduction

This True Team idea is based off of a Twitter conversation with Jason Wojciechowski about True Teams. This past season, Grant Green - a prospect in the Oakland Athletics organization - was moved from shortstop to center field because his defense wasn't good enough. However, Billy Beane told Green that the purpose of this move was that Cliff Pennington was blocking him at short. I snarkily replied that "Cliff Pennington is a True Athletic. Can't move him from short."

We often hear about a player being a True Yankee, but what about the rest of the teams? I'll run through each team in alphabetical order.

Many of the players on these teams will be current players, just because they haven't had the opportunity to go elsewhere just yet. The average amount of current players per team is nine.

History

Here are the links to the previous posts in this series:

Angels | Astros | Athletics | Blue Jays | Braves | Brewers | Cardinals | Cubs | Diamondbacks | Dodgers | Giants | Indians | Mariners | Marlins | Mets | Nationals (Expos) | Orioles | Padres | Phillies | Pirates | Rangers | Rays

Method

1. The player must have played for the team in question for their entire career, as found by the "C" column in the Franchise Encyclopedia on baseball-reference. The reason for this is simply to make the data gathering process as simple as possible. Unfortunately, this strict rule leads to the omissions of players such as Willie Mays and Hanley Ramirez.

2. Players are ranked based on fWAR for batters and rWAR for pitchers (this is based on the relative ability to gain these values. Plus, pitcher WAR is not available on Fangraphs as far back as it is on baseball-reference.)

3. Pitchers are defined as starting pitchers if they have started more than 60% their career appearances.

4. For hitters, the position they play on the All-True Team may not have been their main position in real life, but they must have played there at some point in their career.

5. If two players are similar in overall WAR, their length of career will be the deciding factor as to which one makes the team.

6. A 25-man roster will be chosen for each team. This includes a starting player for each defensive position, five starting pitchers, five relief pitchers and seven bench players. These bench players will be the seven best remaining players.

7. A Mr. Team may be chosen if their career WAR is greater than 30% of the total All-Team WAR. There will be nine Mr. Teams chosen.

Results

Star-divide

Position Player WAR
C Jason Varitek 24.8
1B Carl Yastrzemski 108.7
2B Bobby Doerr 60.9
SS Rico Petrocelli 45.7
3B Kevin Youkilis 28.1
LF Ted Williams 139.8
CF Dom DiMaggio 41.1
RF Jim Rice 56.1
SP Mel Parnell 29
SP Tex Hughson 24.4
SP Jon Lester 22.9
SP Ray Collins 19.3
SP Tom Brewer 13.7
CL Bob Stanley 21.5
RP Hideki Okajima 6.3
RP Daniel Bard 5.4
RP Larry Pape 3.7
RP Jim Wright 2
BENCH (OF) Mike Greenwell 28.4
BENCH (2B) Dustin Pedroia 25.7
BENCH (OF) Jacoby Ellsbury 17.3
BENCH (3B) Tim Naehring 12.5
BENCH (C) Bill Carrigan 10.5
BENCH (SP) Daisuke Matsuzaka 9.6
BENCH (SP) Willard Nixon 9.2
TOTAL 766.6


Conclusion

Team Established:1901

Total Team WAR: 766.6

Total WAR Rank: 2/30 teams

Mr. Red Sock: N/A. Ted Williams only has 18% of the total team WAR.

Team MVP: Ted Williams, 139.8 WAR.

Number of Active Players: 8. This is one fewer than the average for all true teams.

Free Agent: Jason Varitek. Varitek is nearing the end of his career and may possibly retire. Jonathan Papelbon was originally on this team, but he has since signed with the Philadelphia Phillies. His removal from the team did not change the Red Sox ranking at all.

Players That Just Missed (90% of Career on Team): Dwight Evans (97% of PA, 70.4 WAR in BOS), Frank Malzone (97% of PA, 23.9 WAR in BOS), Tim Wakefield (93% of IP, 29.6 WAR in BOS), Ike Delock (98% of IP, 9.7 WAR in BOS)

As was evident in earlier posts, international players like Matsuzaka who began their professional career elsewhere are eligible for these lists.

Yastrzemski and Rice were both primarily left fielders, but they played enough time at first base and right field respectively in their careers to allow Williams to play left.

Carrigan is the lone player on the team who played for the team when they were named the Boston Americans from 1901 - 1907.

This is a very good team led by multiple hall-of-famers and completed by multiple very good players. The relief pitching is very thin, but that's normal everywhere.

Johnny Pesky doesn't make this list because only 86% of his plate appearances were as a Red Sox player. By WAR, roughly 93% of his value did come as a Red Sox player.

There won't be many conclusions drawn here, but feel free to discuss this team in the comments. Anyone I missed, any surprises, any memories of specific players?

Read about the Red Sox on SBNation at Over The Monster!

Follow me on Twitter at Steal of Home!

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More from Beyond the Box Score

All True Twins Team

Dec 2011 by Chris St. John - 2 comments

All True Tigers Team

Dec 2011 by Chris St. John - 14 comments

All True Rockies Team

Dec 2011 by Chris St. John - 3 comments

All True Reds Team

Dec 2011 by Chris St. John - 7 comments

Comments

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I loved it until I saw DiceK there

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by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 5, 2011 2:12 PM EST reply actions  

It just shows ...

… how poor the Red Sox were at developing and keeping good starters during the Yawkey years. Mel Parnell was a great pitcher, but to be No. 1 all-time? Yeesh. Hughson makes the list only because his arm practically fell off, otherwise I’m sure there’d have been a way to trade him away, too. Of course, with a lineup like that, who needs pitching? Well, that’s what Yawkey and his GMs thought, anyway.

http://www.yfsf.org

by Paul SF on Dec 5, 2011 2:38 PM EST reply actions  

Ted Williams

according to fangraphs WAR is the greatest player on a true team ever. That’s not even including the fact he lost 4 prime years to the war.

by Bososx13 on Dec 5, 2011 9:58 PM EST reply actions  

His career WAR is greater than the True Blue Jays, Marlins, Diamondbacks, Nats/Expos, Rays, Padres and Mets, and equal to the True Rockies.

Wow.

by macomeau on Dec 14, 2011 8:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Damn,

that’s a stacked lineup. Here’s hoping the Yankees are #1!

by bloppy_ploppy on Dec 5, 2011 10:53 PM EST reply actions  

Well...

Without calculating exact numbers (or doing more than guessing who the Yankees will be), Yaz/Williams vs Gehrig/Mantle is pretty close to a wash. Joe D > Dom D. Dickey > Varitek. Jeter > Petrocelli. Rivera > Stanley (by a lot). Ford/Guidry/Stottlemyre/Chandler > Parnell/Hughson/Lester/Collins (in fact, Spud Chandler is only a bit behind Parnell).

So that leaves one OF, 2B, 3B, one SP, the RPs and the bench. The Yankees still have Bernie Williams, Earle Combes, Robinson Cano, Jorge Posada, Thurman Munson, Phil Rizzuto, Frankie Crosetti, Tommy Henrich, George Selkirk and god know who else for the bench/positions. Joba and David Robertson will probably be in the RPs.

Because it’s easier, I only looked at rWAR for the Yankees, but most of the ones I’ve picked out aren’t especially close.

by macomeau on Dec 6, 2011 1:39 PM EST up reply actions  

So, being moderately obsessive...

I totalled up the proper (according to the given formula) WARs of the players I named in my first paragraph. They have 699.1 WAR. The Yankees would need to get about 67 WAR from one OF, one SP, the RPs, the 2B, the 3B and the bench.

If Robinson Cano and Frankie Crosetti are the 2B and 3B, they add 24.5 and 35.8 WAR (759.4 total). You could take the 47.5 WAR of Bernie Williams, have Mantle/Williams/DiMaggio in the outfield, and be way into first on total WAR. Plus 5 pitchers and the bench.

Oh, and Mantle/Gehrig vs Williams/Yaz is a wash: 249 to 248.5.

I’ll be curious to see which players I’ve missed when the Yankees’ team comes around.

by macomeau on Dec 6, 2011 8:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Roy White comes to mind

"Good luck, National League managers – I have no idea how you’re supposed to get this guy out." - Dave Cameron on Joey Votto

by Grahamophone on Dec 7, 2011 9:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah,

I almost replied to my last post with Roy White after doing 30 seconds more research. He’s tied with Bernie Williams, so the bench would get 47.5 WAR no matter which OF trio you go with (presuming that I still haven’t missed an OF with higher WAR).

by macomeau on Dec 8, 2011 12:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Tim Naehring sighting!

Great stuff. But yeah, the lineup looks just a bit better than the staff.

Creator of the @baseballtwit on Twitter

by adarowski on Dec 6, 2011 12:12 PM EST reply actions  

An Idea

How about making the player’s requirement be only that they began their careers in a Sox uniform,or were signed by the Sox, but let go before making the majors.I.E. Jim Fregosi.They put him on the expansion list in the fall of ‘60 and the new Angels snapped him up.Those bad Sox teams would have looked alot better with Fregosi at SS. he was a natural fenway hitter,who would probably had an additional 50 Hr’s and 100 Doubles. On that kind of team, you would have to include Jim Lonborg,John Tudor, Cecil Cooper, Ben Oglivie,Reggie Smith, George Scott,,Carlton Fisk, Sparky Lyle,Dick Radtz,Freddy Sanchez,Fred Lynn,Wilber Wood,Tris Speaker, Babe Ruth,Carl Mays, Amos Otis, Justin Dushrocher, David Eckstein, and many others.

by Robert57 on Dec 9, 2011 7:56 AM EST reply actions  

I get the impression that the idea is to sort of look at the “True Yankee” mythos. Including guys who were originally discovered by, but never played for them or briefly played for them, is sort of fundamentally against the spirit of the exercise. It’s not about how much better the Sox of the 60s could have been with Fregosi, it’s about the all-time team you can put together with players who spent their life working for the team.

That said, I think the 100% criteria is unrealistically strict. I can’t help but look at the Jays and think that Dave Stieb belongs on there, for example. I know he pitched a few innings in Cleveland, but the guy is completely associated with Toronto. Perhaps if the bar were 95%? I do realize this would have massively scaled up the required workload.

It is interesting to see what is really a gut call played out with pure math though.

by macomeau on Dec 12, 2011 12:27 PM EST up reply actions  

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