Setting a franchise back X years
PSA: Phillies fans, read at your own risk.
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Depending on who you ask, the Phillies either cost themselves a couple of decent players or set the franchise back ten years in their transactions involving Cliff Lee. So often perception drives rhetoric, less often perception actually equals reality. Perception only equals reality with proper perspective, so let's attempt to gain it by studying the transactions, assuming no benefit of hindsight.
If you took the players the Indians have traded away in the past two years--two top-of-the-rotation workhorses and a switch-hitting, all-star catcher--you'd have the makings of a pretty good team. Lee was the second of the two aces dealt, and much like CC Sabathia he was crucial to his new team's playoff run. While Sabathia's 2008 brilliance down the stretch merely bought the Brewers a spot in the post season tournament, Lee was instrumental in his team's advancement to the tournament's final round. But it wouldn't be enough to overtake the Yankees, who ironically featured a rotation headlined by none other than Sabathia.
None of this was known at the time. What was known is the fact that Lee all but guaranteed the Phillies another division title and greatly improved their chances of defending their world championship. What was also known is the Phillies had to pay handsomely for Lee's services. If you're willing to consider Lou Marson and Ben Francisco a wash, here's what the quantification of the resources swapped looks like:
If since the strike there's been a more even swap, in terms of value, I'd like to see it. At the time of the deal it was considered a steal for the Phillies. It's true that the package the Indians received isn't as strong as that typically exchanged for a year and 1/2 of an ace, but more so because teams are frequently inclined to overpay in the midst of a pennant race, not because the prospects were worthless or bad. They might could have gotten more, but the deal absolutely made sense--for both sides.
Continued below.
Perhaps because locking up their ace long term was a priority, the Phillies made a curious and noisy trade two months after the 2009 post season, shipping another trio of prospects to Toronto for Roy Halladay and simultaneously shipping Cliff Lee to Seattle for a separate trio. There are a lot of moving parts, here, I've done my best to simplify it via visualizations. The resources, quantified:
As you can see, this is exactly the point where everything stops making sense for Philadelphia and turns into highway robbery. It's natural to question the thought process behind such a lop sided move, especially for the party that comes up with the short end of the stick. So, what the hell were the Phillies thinking?
I can think of a few possibilities. One, they over valued the extension they gave Halladay. With the extension in place, I have Halladay as a $25.6 million commodity through 2013. What I haven't displayed is his value had they not extended him, which is a quite similar $20.1 million. If you have a $7 million house with a $7 million mortgage, your house is worthless. If you lock up a free agent at market rate, you haven't gained very much. This is universally true. Parting with prospects for the privilege of paying a player market rate is foolish.
Two, they didn't know just how good Cliff Lee is. I have a hard time buying into this theory, given the Phillies excellent reputation with respect to scouting. Still, Halladay's contract over Lee's contract was nothing more than a wash, a redistribution of value (to their MLB roster) rather than an addition. Nearly all of the deficit can be explained by the difference in the quality of prospects exchanged. Why the Phillies thought Halladay and his extension was worth two top-30 prospects and a fringe top-100, but Lee was worth only a fringe top-100 prospect and two sub-100's, I have no idea, but that was the biggest mistake Amaro made in handling this situation.
Since then, things have only gotten worse. After three months with Seattle, Lee was traded to Texas along with unremarkable reliever Mark Lowe for Justin Smoak, Blake Beavan, and unremarkable (at least from a baseball standpoint) prospects Matthew Lawson and Josh Lueke. Smoak is a more valuable commodity than the trio Philadelphia received from Seattle combined. Quantified:
As if that weren't enough, the prospects the Phillies got for Lee haven't exactly set the world on fire in 2010. Aumont has walked as many as he's struck out in AA, Ramirez has been solid if unspectacular at the same level, and Gillies--hitting .238/.286/.333 in AA--is now being billed as a future 4th OF.
Start playing "What if?" and the Phillies fans you know might reach for a weapon. For instance, what if the Phillies had waited to move Lee and hadn't signed Ryan Howard for 5 years and $125 million, and traded Lee for the Smoak package last week, enabling them to keep Werth, rather than Ibanez, past 2010. You'd be looking at a 2011 line up consisting of Smoak, Utley, Rollins, Polanco, Domonic Brown, Victorino, and Werth, rather than Howard, Utley, Rollins, Polanco, Brown, Victorino, and Ibanez. Swapping Werth for Ibanez makes the line up infinitely less lefty-heavy (and, thus, LOOGY vulnerable) in the middle, and the difference between Ibanez and Werth likely more than accounts for the difference between Howard and Smoak.
Betting against the Phillies scouting and player development department isn't something I'd normally be inclined to do, but the route they took to now is inauspicious at best, probably costing the team something like $30 million in the process. Whether you view this as losing a couple of decent players or setting the franchise back a decade is your choice, but the argument that the Phillies handled the situation poorly is nearly unassailable.
The Phillies still have an excellent core and they could very well win this year, and next year, and the next, and the next. This was true before the Lee-Halladay thing went down, though, and if they'd handled the situation better, they could conceivably win more and for longer.
As always, all's not lost if knowledge is gained, and so long as Ruben Amaro and company have learned from their mistake, they'll probably soldier on, bent but not broken. If they make the same mistake again, though? Well that would almost certainly set the franchise back a decade, and might be enough to induce a few pink slips from the team's ownership.
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great writeup, agree with most of it
the what-if scenario is a bit farfetch’d and unfair, but makes a good point
Good stuff
I love the trade value calculator.
Correction on Howard though: His extension doesn’t kick in for a few years. Had they not done it he would still be in the 2011 lineup. If the Phillies had not done the stupid Lee trade over the winter:
1) They would probably be 3 wins better since Lee has 3 WAR so far, which would put them 1.5 back of the Braves. No way the Phillies deal Lee if they are in a midseason dogfight. They thought they could trade him last winter because a lot of people said they were locks for the division. They were wrong, and their hubris is being punished.
2) If they traded Lee with Howard under contract for 2011 only, I think they take the Yankee offer over Smoak, and get a chance at a Piazza-type catcher. If it works out for Montero behind the plate, great, and they worry about a new 1B in 2012. If it doesn’t work out for Montero as a catcher, then he replaces Howard at first. Unlike Smoak, he’s not immediately major league ready, so there is no overlap.
"That boy is our last hope" - Obi Wan Scioscia, as Francisco Rodriguez left for the Mets. "No, there is another" - Yoda Reagins.
I agree with this. There are several other scenarios that make plenty of sense, the one I discussed is just one of them.
Beyond the Box Score / Capitol Avenue Club / shwitter: @CapitolAvenue
I wouldn’t bet against Philadelphia in the next two to four years. After that, maybe.
I hate the Phillies so much...
by frozendesert on Jul 13, 2010 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions
The Philies locked up Blanton for 3 years at around market rate after Lee was dealt
so it kinda seems like they choose 3/24 of Blanton over 1/9 of Lee, which is also puzzling.
With crappy overpaid vets of course!
by TheBravestWay To Block A Decent Prospect on Jul 12, 2010 6:18 PM EDT reply actions
It should be noted that Lou Marson was actually the #66 Prospect, according to BA, entering 2009, so chalking up Francisco and Marson “as a wash” really doesn’t wash out.
What would you estimate Francisco's projected annual WAR as?
I was playing with numbers, and if he were putting up 1 WAR seasons until he hit FA, he’d be projected to be a wash with Marson, using his value as 14.2MM as a BA top 50-75 hitter.
Of course, what he’s doing right now isn’t one.
"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it" ~ Mae West
I guess I would say that “what he’s doing now” is probably more on par with what he’s going to be doing until he’s a FA as a reserve OF on the Phillies, particularly considering that he’s going to turn 29 in the off-season.
by The DiaTriber on Jul 13, 2010 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions
P.W.
To make it fair, I think you should do this sort of analysis for that Teixeira trade. As a Braves fan, I know it hurt, I just want to know how much it hurt.
I hate the Phillies so much...
I have before
Back at CAC, I’ll try to dig up the link.
Beyond the Box Score / Capitol Avenue Club / shwitter: @CapitolAvenue
I thought I had done more than this
but this is all I could find. The Teixeira stuff is buried halfway down the post. You’ll see images that look like the ones here with Teixeira’s name on them.
Beyond the Box Score / Capitol Avenue Club / shwitter: @CapitolAvenue
Thanks....
it still hurts…
I hate the Phillies so much...
by frozendesert on Jul 15, 2010 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Sigh.
I wish my Rangers still had Smoak instead of Lee.
the Halladay-Lee trade was a bad move for the phils
They just swapped one ace for another while giving up better prospects. But worked out for my Jays so I’m fine with it.




















