New York Mets: Franchise Leaders by WAR and its Components

by adarowski on Jun 10, 2010 9:15 AM EDT

I took a little break from my franchise WAR leaders series, but I'm back today with the relatively uninspiring history of the New York Mets (I'm sorry, it just is). Previously, I covered the Red Sox, Twins, White Sox, and Rangers. As usual, all numbers are from Rally's WAR database. Let's just jump right in and kick things off with career WAR.

By total WAR:

New York Mets Career WAR Leaders, Position Players
Rank	Name	PlApp	WAR
1	Darryl Strawberry	4509	37.7
2	Edgardo Alfonso	4384	29.1
3	David Wright	3627	27.2
4	Carlos Beltran	2929	26.6
5	Keith Hernandez	3651	26.5
6	Howard Johnson	4537	24.7
7	Mike Piazza	3919	24.6
8	Jose Reyes	3617	21.1
9	Mookie Wilson	4283	19.4
10	John Olerud	1996	18.6
11	John Stearns	3027	18.5
12	Cleon Jones	4617	17.6
13	Kevin McReynolds	3182	17.0
14	Lenny Dykstra	1877	16.4
15	Dave Magadan	2442	15.2
16	Bud Harrelson	4984	14.8
17	Wayne Garrett	3310	13.2
18	Jerry Grote	4265	13.0
19	Lee Mazzilli	3464	12.9
20	Tommie Agee	2663	12.4
21	Gary Carter	2415	11.2
22	Bernard Gilkey	1542	11.1
23	Todd Hundley	2870	10.9
24	Robin Ventura	1756	10.7
25	John Milner	2735	10.1
26	Wally Backman	2632	9.6
27	Steve Henderson	2013	9.6
28	Cliff Floyd	1870	8.9
29	Lance Johnson	1014	8.9
30	Joel Youngblood	2075	8.8

Wait, that's it? 37.7 WAR? Even the Texas Rangers had a pair of guys above that. I also can't believe that Edgardo Alfonso is second in club history. I almost forgot he existed. Seriously, I'm not sure what to say, besides "Wow, the Expos really got the prime of Gary Carter's career". Oh, and boy do I have a ton of Lenny Dykstra cards somewhere.

New York Mets Career WAR Leaders, Pitchers
Rank	Name	Innings	WAR
1	Tom Seaver	3045.3	75.8
2	Jerry Koosman	2544.7	41.8
3	Dwight Gooden	2169.7	41.2
4	Jon Matlack	1448	27.0
5	Sid Fernandez	1584.6	26.9
6	Al Leiter	1360	26.3
7	David Cone	1209.4	19.0
8	Ron Darling	1620	16.5
9	Rick Reed	888.6	14.8
10	John Franco	702.7	12.8
11	Craig Swan	1230.5	12.6
12	Tug McGraw	792.7	12.4
13	Jesse Orosco	595.6	12.2
14	Bret Saberhagen	524.3	11.5
15	Tom Glavine	1005.2	11.3
16	Armando Benitez	346.9	10.6
17	Johan Santana	401	10.0
18	Bobby Jones	1215.7	9.7
19	Bobby Ojeda	763.9	9.6
20	Frank Viola	566.3	9.6
21	Steve Tracshel	956.5	9.1
22	Gary Gentry	789.3	7.7
23	Pat Zachry	741.8	7.6
24	Jim McAndrew	729.6	7.5
25	Skip Lockwood	379.6	7.4
26	Ray Sadecki	600.4	6.9
27	Jack Fisher	931.7	6.6
28	Roger Craig	469.3	6.0
29	Pedro Martinez	486.7	5.8
30	Pete Falcone	607.6	5.4
31	Ed Lynch	730.3	5.4

Okay, now we're seeing something. I'm guessing there won't be many franchises where three pitchers had more WAR with the team than the top hitter. Seaver stands out as the gem of the franchise's history—which makes the story of his trade to the Reds all the more facepalm-inducing. The 1988 season was the first where, as a kid, I could pretty much tell you the numbers of any player. That Mets rotation really stood out to me—and it does here, too. Gooden (#3), Fernandez (#5), Cone (#7), Darling (#8), and Ojeda (#19) are all in the Top 20. In case you were wondering (I know you weren't), Nolan Ryan was worth 3.7 WAR as a Met.

By WAR used as a rate stat

New York Mets Career WAR per 700 Plate Appearances Leaders, Minimum 2000 PA
Rank	Name	PlApp	WAR/700 PA
1	Carlos Beltran	2929	6.36
2	Darryl Strawberry	4509	5.85
3	David Wright	3627	5.25
4	Keith Hernandez	3651	5.08
5	Edgardo Alfonso	4384	4.65
6	Mike Piazza	3919	4.39
7	Dave Magadan	2442	4.36
8	John Stearns	3027	4.28
9	Jose Reyes	3617	4.08
10	Howard Johnson	4537	3.81
11	Kevin McReynolds	3182	3.74
12	Steve Henderson	2013	3.34
13	Tommie Agee	2663	3.26
14	Gary Carter	2415	3.25
15	Mookie Wilson	4283	3.17
16	Bobby Bonilla	2025	3.01
17	Joel Youngblood	2075	2.97
18	Wayne Garrett	3310	2.79
19	Cleon Jones	4617	2.67
20	Todd Hundley	2870	2.66

The Red Sox had seven players above 6.0 WAR/700 (aka Wins Above MVP Level). The Senators/Twins and White Sox had three apeice while the Senators/Rangers had two. The Mets only have Carlos Beltran. Darryl Strawberry, David Wright, and Keith Hernandez also stand out above the rest. Then we get Alfonso again—still impressive once normalized over 700 PAs. Anyone else surprised to see Dave Magadan rank that highly? This list goes all the way down to Todd Hundley and his 2.66 WAR/700. Luckily, the pitchers are better.

New York Mets Career WAR per 200 Innings Pitched Leaders, Minimum 200 IP
Rank	Name	Innings	WAR/200
1	Armando Benitez	346.9	6.11
2	Johan Santana	401	4.99
3	Tom Seaver	3045.3	4.98
4	Bret Saberhagen	524.3	4.39
5	Mike Hampton	217.7	4.23
6	Jesse Orosco	595.6	4.10
7	Randy Myers	240	4.00
8	Skip Lockwood	379.6	3.90
9	Al Leiter	1360	3.87
10	Dwight Gooden	2169.7	3.80
11	Jon Matlack	1448	3.73
12	John Franco	702.7	3.64
13	Carl Willey	241	3.40
14	Sid Fernandez	1584.6	3.40
15	Frank Viola	566.3	3.39
16	Rick Reed	888.6	3.33
17	Kevin Appier	206.7	3.29
18	Jerry Koosman	2544.7	3.29
19	David Cone	1209.4	3.14
20	Tug McGraw	792.7	3.13

Pitchers are supposed to have a tougher time compiling career WAR. Not if you're a Met! After the token closer at the top of the list (Benitez), we get a quartet of impressive starters in Santana, Seaver, Saberhagen, and Hampton. Hampton was only a Met for one year, but he pitched enough to make the list. Among starters with a significant number of innings, Al Leiter, Dwight Gooden, Jon Matlack, and Sid Fernandez stand out. Considering his career WAR is on the high end for relievers, I'm surprised to see John Franco's WAR/200 doesn't look that good.

By WAR components (for position players)

New York Mets Career Batting Runs Above Average
Rank	Name	PlApp	Bat
1	Darryl Strawberry	4509	239
2	David Wright	3627	183
3	Mike Piazza	3919	171
4	Keith Hernandez	3651	150
5	Howard Johnson	4537	135
6	John Olerud	1996	130
7	Carlos Beltran	2929	107
8	Edgardo Alfonso	4384	93
9	Dave Magadan	2442	89
10	Kevin McReynolds	3182	87

Strawberry stands atop this list but figures to be challenged by Wright at some point. If Wright keeps at his current pace this season, he should hover around 210 Batting Runs through his age 27 season. This is not the only component that Keith Hernandez ranks well in.

New York Mets Career Baserunning Runs Above Average
Rank	Name	BSrun
1	Mookie Wilson	33
2	Jose Reyes	31
3	Lenny Dykstra	24
4	David Wright	17
5	Carlos Beltran	16
6	Howard Johnson	15
7	Lance Johnson	12
8	Keith Miller	11
9	Edgardo Alfonso	10
10	Roger Cedeno	10

These numbers are from the start of the 2010 season and Baseball-Reference's updated data has Reyes now tied with Mookie.

New York Mets Career Total Zone (Range) Runs Above Average
Rank	Name	TZ
1	Keith Hernandez	50
2	Rey Ordonez	47
3	Edgardo Alfonso	46
4	Bud Harrelson	42
5	Carlos Beltran	37
6	Robin Ventura	36
7	Jose Reyes	31
8	Endy Chavez	29
9	Bernard Gilkey	29
10	John Olerud	28

Not sure how many clubs are going to have a first baseman ranked first all-time in Total Zone. But Hernandez did it. In fact, he ranks among the all time greats in Total Zone regardless of position. We begin to see why Alfonso ranks so highly in career WAR—he brought an excellent glove along with an impressive bat (for a second baseman). Great to see glovemen like Ventura and Olerud, who were Mets somewhat later in their careers, still flash that leather that made them so underrated.

New York Mets Career Outfield Arm Runs Above Average
Rank	Name	OFarm
1	Joel Youngblood	13
2	Bernard Gilkey	9
3	Timo Perez	9
4	Johnny Lewis	7
5	Jay Payton	6
6	Don Hahn	6
7	Mike Cameron	5
8	Tsuyoshi Shinjo	4
9	Del Unser	4
10	Richard Hidalgo	4
11	Ellis Valentine	4

Joel Youngblood, of course, played for two teams in the same day. That is the most interesting thing about this list.

New York Mets Career Catching Runs Above Average, Minimum 4 runs
Rank	Name	catcher
1	John Stearns	36
2	Jerry Grote	29
3	Chris Cannizzaro	19
4	Charlie O'Brien	18
5	Vance Wilson	13
6	Alex Trevino	10
7	Alberto Castillo	8
8	Duffy Dyer	7
9	Jason Phillips	6
10	Rick Cerone	4
11	Todd Pratt	4
12	Ramon Castro	4

Again with the Gary Carter! Turns out, he was worth a run below average with the Mets while he was worth 106 runs with Montreal. Yikes. The #1 catcher on this list, John Stearns, actually started as the backup for (and eventually replaced) the #2 catcher, Jerry Grote. Grote, of course, backstopped the 1969 Amazin's while Stearns was a four-time All Star and actually held the NL stole basen record for catchers (with 25) until Jason Kendall passed him. Stearns also got in a fight with Gary Carter after a collision at the plate in 1979 (Carter was with the Mets). Turns out Carter was no match for him on this list.

By WAR in a single season

New York Mets Single Season WAR Leaders, Position Players
Rank	Name	Year	WAR
1	Bernard Gilkey	1996	8.1
2	John Olerud	1998	8.1
3	Carlos Beltran	2006	8.0
4	David Wright	2007	7.8
5	Howard Johnson	1989	7.7
6	Cleon Jones	1969	7.6
7	Edgardo Alfonso	1997	7.0
8	Carlos Beltran	2008	6.8
9	Lance Johnson	1996	6.8
10	Edgardo Alfonso	2000	6.7
11	Gary Carter	1985	6.7
12	Darryl Strawberry	1987	6.7
13	Robin Ventura	1999	6.7
14	Keith Hernandez	1984	6.5
15	Darryl Strawberry	1990	6.5
16	David Wright	2008	6.1
17	Jose Reyes	2006	5.9
18	Darryl Strawberry	1988	5.9
19	Edgardo Alfonso	1999	5.7
20	Tommie Agee	1969	5.6
21	Keith Hernandez	1986	5.6

Well hey, Bernard Gilkey. I'll admit I didn't see that one coming. Surprisingly few seasons from the 2000s here. Many other teams had certain players appear on this list multiple times. This one... not so much. I count three appearances by Darryl Strawberry and Edgar Alfonso and two apiece by David Wright, Carlos Beltran, and Keith Hernandez. Beyond that, a bunch of one-timers. It seems that in the somewhat rare event a player is a star for the Mets, it doesn't last all that long. Hence the lack of repeat single-season WAR leaders and low overall total of the career leaders.

New York Mets WORST Single Season WAR Leaders, Position Players
Rank	Name	Year	WAR
1	Brian McRae	1999	-2.7
2	Doug Flynn	1979	-2.5
3	Willie Montanez	1979	-2.5
4	Doug Flynn	1977	-2.3
5	Frank Taveras	1981	-2.1

For the first time so far, we see a guy appear on this list twice. Generally speaking, if you get on this list your chances should have run out. Not Doug Flynn. Flynn was a horrible, horrible hitting second baseman (-236 batting runs) who won a Gold Glove award in 1980. The thing is, he was good in the field in 1980 (8 runs according to Total Zone), but he wasn't really ever good any other year. He rated as -22 for his career. In 1979, he was -31 runs at bat and -8 in the field. In 1977, he was worth -30 and -6. He rarely crossed over into positive WAR, finishing his career with a jaw-dropping -12.1 WAR. That right there is the second worst mark of all time, behind Bill Bergen.

New York Mets Single Season WAR Leaders, Pitchers
Rank	Name	Year	WAR
1	Dwight Gooden	1985	11.7
2	Tom Seaver	1973	9.5
3	Tom Seaver	1971	9.2
4	Jon Matlack	1974	8.6
5	Tom Seaver	1975	7.7
6	Tom Seaver	1969	7.6
7	Tom Seaver	1968	7.5
8	Jerry Koosman	1968	6.8
9	Jerry Koosman	1969	6.7
10	Jon Matlack	1972	6.7
11	Al Leiter	1998	6.5
12	Johan Santana	2008	6.4
13	Tom Seaver	1967	6.4
14	Frank Viola	1990	6.3
15	Tom Seaver	1970	6.0
16	David Cone	1988	5.8
17	Tom Seaver	1972	5.8
18	Jerry Koosman	1973	5.7
19	Tom Seaver	1974	5.7
20	Tom Seaver	1976	5.7
21	Craig Swan	1978	5.7

Okay, now we're starting to see some repeats. Seaver is on here ten times, taking five of the first seven spots. Koosman places three times while Matlack appears twice. Dwight Gooden takes the #1 spot outright by a lot, but surprisingly doesn't appear on the list again.

New York Mets WORST Single Season WAR Leaders, Pitchers
Rank	Name	Year	WAR
1	Paul Wilson	1996	-2.8
2	Craig Anderson	1962	-2.0
3	Randy Jones	1981	-1.8
4	Jim McAndrew	1973	-1.7
5	Doug Sisk	1985	-1.7

Ouch. Paul Wilson. Not only was he taken first overall in 1994, but he flopped miserably in his rookie year (to the tune of the worst pitching performance in club history). He wasn't much better in Tampa or Cincinnati, either. His 2.5 WAR year with the Reds in 2004 saved him from a career below replacement level. He finished with 1.1 WAR. With Anderson, you'd expect a lot of the '62 Mets (40-120) pitchers to be south of replacement level. But they really weren't. Roger Craig was worth 3.4 WAR that year (while losing 24 games) while Al Jackson was worth 3.1 (he lost 20). Anderson and Ray Daviault (-1.2 WAR) were the only pitchers with over 40 innings to be below replacement level. And yes—that's the same Randy Jones who was starring for the Padres only a couple years earlier.

All Time Team

Catcher: Mike Piazza (24.6 WAR, 4.4 WAR/700)
First Base: Keith Hernandez (26.5 WAR, 5.1 WAR/700)
Second Base: Edgardo Alfonso (29.1 WAR, 4.7 WAR/700)
Third Base: David Wright (27.2 WAR, 5.3 WAR/700)
Shortstop: Jose Reyes (21.1 WAR, 4.1 WAR/700)
Outfield: Darryl Strawberry (37.7 WAR, 5.9 WAR/700)
Outfield: Carlos Beltran (26.6 WAR, 6.4 WAR/700)
Outfield: Kevin McReynolds (17.0 WAR, 3.7 WAR/700)
Starting Pitcher: Tom Seaver (75.8 WAR, 5.0 WAR/700)
Starting Pitcher: Jerry Koosman (41.8 WAR, 3.3 WAR/700)
Starting Pitcher: Dwight Gooden (41.2 WAR, 3.8 WAR/700)
Starting Pitcher: Al Leiter (26.3 WAR, 3.9 WAR/700)
Relief Pitcher: John Franco (12.8 WAR, 3.6 WAR/700)
Relief Pitcher: Armando Benitez (10.6 WAR, 6.1 WAR/700)

I'll be honest. It's not a club you're going to fear. It was really hard picking a third outfielder after Strawberry and Beltran. But McReynolds had the right mix of total and rate WAR (sad as that is). It's funny that I would have rather stuck John Stearns in the outfield than McReynolds. The starting ptichers were pretty easy while it was a bit tough to leave Tug McGraw off the reliever list. But Franco had the longevity and Benitez had the dominance.

The total for this all-time Mets team is 65.3 WAR. As medoicre as the Rangers were, I'm kind of surprised they finished behind this pretty rough group. Seaver, Beltran, Strawberry, Wright, and Benitez carried this group. Here are the totals so far:

Red Sox (88.9 WAR)
Twins (71.6 WAR)
White Sox (68.5 WAR)
Mets (65.3 WAR)
Rangers (63.7 WAR)

So, who's next? In the queue we have:

Chicago Cubs
Detroit Tigers
Atlanta Braves
New York Yankees

I'm looking forward to seeing the results of each of these. I'm guessing each will be among the top teams in the series. They've all been around a long time and had some huge stars.

Tweet Comment 37 comments | 0 recs |

Do you like this story?

Comments

Wow. Not sure how Mets fans will handle this news...

Strictly going by WAR per 700 plate appearances, Carlos Beltran is the most productive position player the Mets have ever had.

Beyond the Box Score | Facebook | @BtB_Sky | BtB Newsletter

by Sky Kalkman on Jun 10, 2010 9:20 AM EDT reply actions

Hell, three of the top nine play TODAY

On Twitter: @baseballtwit

by adarowski on Jun 10, 2010 9:24 AM EDT up reply actions

The problem with the Mets re: career WAR

, at least on the offensive side, is that the Mets’ best players never played long enough to accumulate high career WAR totals. Just look at the total PAs. Cleon Jones is tops at 4,617. That’s not even seven full seasons.

Strawberry left after eight seasons, he was only 28 when he signed with L.A. Santana and Beltran have had longer tenures with other ballclubs. In addition, since coming to NY, they’ve both missed substantial time due to injury.

As you mentioned, Carter was already washed up by the time he came over, and Keith Hernandez’s best years were already behind him. Hernandez played roughly 4 1/2 seasons in Queens before he became worthless.

Shocking as it may sound to some Mets fans (particularly the younger group), Piazza didn’t play his best ball for the Mets. His greatest offensive seasons came while he was with the Dodgers. In L.A. he put together four seasons of 6.0 WAR or higher, including an astounding 9.4 WAR in ‘97 (which, BTW, puts Mauer’s 8.0 WAR in ’09 to shame).

With the Mets, Piazza had one 6.0 WAR season, five seasons under 5.0, four seasons of 4.0 WAR or fewer, and three of 2.2 WAR or less. Is there any question what cap he’ll be wearing when he goes into the Hall? (not that WAR has anything to do with HOF voting, but even the non-WAR crowd can obviously see he made his mark as a Dodger).

In short, the Mets didn’t get his best, someone else did.

Hopefully, Reyes and Wright will change that by remaining career Mets. Free agency can be a mo-fo though.

I can certainly buy Beltran as having the highest WAR per 700 plate appearances because of his contributions on both sides of the ball. It’s just a shame that he hasn’t had that many 700-PA seasons for Mets fans (me included) to fully appreciate his worth.

by Paul Bourdett on Jun 10, 2010 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions

Nothing you said here isn't true.

I might quibble with some of the details but this hits the nail on the head.

by Eric Simon on Jun 10, 2010 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions

The only thing I disagree with really is Piazza going into the Hall has a Dodger

He’ll be remembered as a Met, went to his only world series as a Met and played more games as a Met. How often does a visiting player get a standing ovation and then two curtain calls in the same game as he did when he came back as a Padre. I could understand if it was a huge difference in production, but 9 WAR isn’t that substantial of a difference.

by Evan_S on Jun 11, 2010 3:35 AM EDT up reply actions

The only person who has a problem with that is Steve Phillips.

In lobby campaign for Chris Carter.

by Michkin on Jun 10, 2010 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions

Preaching to the choir

by Eric Simon on Jun 10, 2010 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions

The only Met fans

who would be offended by that are the talk-radio types who think Beltran is “all about his stats” & “soft.” And Steve Phillips.

"I want to win now, not 3 years from now. That's my stance." - Kevin Burkhardt

by Brian. on Jun 11, 2010 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions

Carlos is one of my favorite players

and has probably been the best center fielder of the last decade. Not sure why any Mets fan would be upset with having him as the career leader in WAR per 700 PA

by Evan_S on Jun 11, 2010 3:37 AM EDT up reply actions

I'm pretty sure Beltran...

..is thought of pretty highly among most met fans, he’s been probably my favorite player on the team the past few years.

by SheoawnnGreen23 on Jun 11, 2010 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions

My bad.

At least I didn’t bring up your infatuation with backups catchers. (I kid, I kid.)

Honestly, I have this idea in my head that New York hates/underappreciates Beltran (and thinks he’s a big waste of money). Am I totally wrong? Is it the media? A subset of media/fans?

Beyond the Box Score | Facebook | @BtB_Sky | BtB Newsletter

by Sky Kalkman on Jun 11, 2010 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions

media

and some of the fans. But most people I know love him, even if they’re still annoyed by the Wainwright curve/non swing.

2009 Did Not Happen

by cjmulrain on Jun 11, 2010 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions

Dumb people.

by JohnPeterson on Jun 11, 2010 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions

I'd say about 90% of the media and 70% of fans

But I don’t consider those people intelligent or worth considering when discussing the Mets.

by Evan_S on Jun 11, 2010 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions

It must be because you read the same thing 879 times or you watched too much Steve Phillips.

Carlos Beltran Underappreciated By The Media, Part 879 by James Kannengieser on Mar 2, 2009
An Open Letter To ESPN by Sam Page on May 18, 2009
“He is good at baseball, but he lacks the 6th tool, so he is bad at baseball”
Steve Phillips: Still An Idiot

In lobby campaign for Chris Carter.

by Michkin on Jun 11, 2010 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions

So did someone...

Send this to Amazin’ Avenue?

It’s a nice article. As a non-Mets fan, part of me has to LOL about this…

It’s vaguely surprising that the Mets have NEVER had a GREAT position player. Not a single HOF-level position player spent the lions share of their career with the Mets.

Wright and Beltran are looking to change that, though.

by Patrick42 on Jun 10, 2010 10:32 AM EDT reply actions

Even Beltran might be inducted (if he goes in) as a Royal

John Olerud, Hall of Famer. Got a nice ring to it.

by squid92 on Jun 11, 2010 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions

Strawberry

I should also mention that in Strawberry’s 27 and 28-year-old seasons with the Mets, his defense, at least by Total Zone metrics, vastly improved. He put up a 17 and 18 in his last two seasons. And then he was gone. Contract year motivation to give it his all out there, perhaps?

I’m a little surprised his arm doesn’t get more RAA love. He had a cannon. I guess it’s because he wasn’t all that accurate and acted like there was no such thing as a cutoff man throughout his career.

by Paul Bourdett on Jun 10, 2010 10:45 AM EDT reply actions

cut-off man?

A theoretical construct, says Straw.
Besides, he threw out Alan Wiggins at home when he tagged on a deep foul fly. Who need fundamentals when you have tools! (jk)

by Harry Pavlidis on Jun 10, 2010 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions

So

The Rangers, White Sox, and Twins have had inspiring histories. Got it.

by James Kannengieser on Jun 10, 2010 11:38 AM EDT reply actions

Well, for personal reasons.

Twins and Rangers more than the White Sox, for me anyway. Looking forward to these next four, though.

On Twitter: @baseballtwit

by adarowski on Jun 10, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions

They at least had a number of legitimate, serious HOFers...

Who put up most of their WAR there. The Mets? Not so much.

The highest career total for a Mets position player is 33.7 WAR. Pujols put up more than that in the last 4 seasons alone. Mauer is at about that for his – still less than halfway over – career.

by Patrick42 on Jun 10, 2010 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions

Bully for them

by James Kannengieser on Jun 10, 2010 11:40 PM EDT up reply actions

Fangraphs already has Wright at 34 WAR

They’re basically the same age and Wright has been better in his career up to this point going by WAR. He has played in about 150 more games, but Wright’s career wOBA is still like 10 points higher.

by Evan_S on Jun 11, 2010 3:41 AM EDT up reply actions

Yep.

I think 1969 should go down as one of the least inspiring seasons of all time, right? And how bout that 1986 World Series? Awful!

John Olerud, Hall of Famer. Got a nice ring to it.

by squid92 on Jun 11, 2010 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions

I'm loving

That Bernard Gilkey and Cliff Floyd made this article…

Clone Chronicles

by Mark Kieffer on Jun 10, 2010 12:16 PM EDT reply actions

Lance Johnson in 1996 had 6.8 WAR?!

Zoinks

by joewho112 on Jun 10, 2010 3:55 PM EDT reply actions

Yeah that was a little surprising

Although I’m guessing that he still got a lot of pub from the public for his effort that season, considering that he batted .333 with 227 hits, 31 doubles, 21 triples, 9 homers and 50 steals. Those are some shiny traditional stats right there.

I like baseball.
I write for Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times Fantasy

by Satchel Price on Jun 10, 2010 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions

yankees

i wonder how they’ll stack up to the mets

by Lurkingoutside on Jun 10, 2010 3:56 PM EDT reply actions

I'll be honest

I think the Yankees can beat them.

Then again, since I total the WAR/700 and WAR/200, perhaps the Rays can too.

On Twitter: @baseballtwit

by adarowski on Jun 10, 2010 4:06 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions

I'm not sure why all the snark

The Mets have occasionally had some good offenses, but for whatever reason have never had great offensive players with long Mets careers. I thought that was pretty general knowledge.

That said, for a franchise that’s been known mostly for its pitching, the pitching comes out looking pretty damn good. Based on a cursory look at the other 4 teams you’ve mentioned, only the Red Sox would have a better pitching staff, and that’s mostly b/c they’ve had 3 of the top 10 (top 5?) pitchers of all time, and that’s not including Cy Young. I have a feeling that once you’ve looked at all the teams, the Mets pitchers will still be towards the top of the list. Consider that they’ve only been around since 1962, and yet they blow the White Sox pitchers out of the water. Not too shabby.

Also, Edgardo Alfonzo was the shizzle for rizzle. Glad to see he’s getting a little bit of post-career recognition here.

2009 Did Not Happen

by cjmulrain on Jun 11, 2010 10:18 AM EDT reply actions

we get it, everyone hates the mets

John Olerud, Hall of Famer. Got a nice ring to it.

by squid92 on Jun 11, 2010 10:19 AM EDT reply actions

WAR as a rate stat

Olerud would rank first on the hitters list with 6.52 WAR/700 PA, except he missed the cut by 4 PA – one stinking game!

by JoshNY on Jun 11, 2010 11:09 AM EDT reply actions

WAR is great, but ...

… this post is a prime example why numbers don’t tell the whole story. The tell MUCH of it, granted, but not all of it (and maybe not the most important parts) …

I cannot believe anyone who suffered through Armando Benitez’s many big game meltdowns would even consider rating him above McGraw, or Orosco, or McDowell, regardless of WAR. Armando was dominant against basement teams playing out the string, sure, but he couldn’t save a big one if his life depended upon it. And to see the likes of Dave Magadan or any one of those catchers not named Carter rated so high points to the essential weakness of WAR and other advanced metrics, in that they do not reflect the ultimate result: the number of games a real TEAM (aka a collection of 25-40 actual flesh and blood players) wins in any given year.

These numbers are valuable in evaluating current players and projecting their future performance when considering them for trade or signing, but as retrospective tool they should be taken with a grain of salt.

by KranepoolRools on Jun 11, 2010 1:39 PM EDT reply actions

If my name was KranepoolRools, I'd hate WAR too. ;)

But seriously, no stat is the be all/end all. Nobody’s claiming it is. WAR does, however as you say, “tell MUCH of [the story]”. That’s what we’re looking at here. Nobody’s making any declarations of who’s better here just because their WAR is higher. But it does give us a lot of insight into the history of a franchise.

On Twitter: @baseballtwit

by adarowski on Jun 11, 2010 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions