Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: The Most Dangerous Division in Sports

BtBs 50 Best of the Next 5 Years: Wrap Up

 

With the BtB top 50 of the next 5 years wrapping up I thought now was a good opportunity to do a few things

1.      Display some summary stats about the list.

2.      Provide the data set so that all of you can look at it however you want.

3.      Address some specific players brought up in the comments that didn't make the list.

4.      Open it up for discussion about improvements / tweaks you guys would like to see if/when we do this again next year

Before we get to those, here's the set of links in case you missed any of the pieces

Methodology

50-41

40-31

30-21

20-11

10-6

5-1

Star-divide

Summary Statistics

 

First a summary by team:

TEAM Top 100 Top 50
ARI 3 2
ATL 6 2
BAL 3 3
BOS 4 1
CHA 2 1
CHN 3 0
CIN 4 2
CLE 3 2
COL 6 5
DET 2 1
FLO 4 2
HOU 1 0
KCA 3 1
LAA 2 0
LAN 3 2
MIL 5 3
MIN 1 1
NYA 8 2
NYN 3 2
OAK 1 0
PHI 4 3
PIT 1 1
SDN 3 1
SEA 3 1
SFN 4 2
SLN 5 3
TBA 6 4
TEX 5 2
TOR 1 0
WAS 1 1

 

Colorado and the Rays look pretty tough going forward.  The Yankees also showed well when the list expands to 100, and they'll also likely snatch up some of the other guys on the list when they become free agents.  This breakdown may not track exactly with future success as it has no concept on who's on what team moving forward; however, it does give insight into team's abilities in player acquisition over the past years.

And then by 2010 age:

2010 Age Top 100 Top 50
20 4 1
21 1 1
22 5 3
23 11 7
24 13 7
25 10 5
26 14 10
27 16 8
28 4 1
29 5 3
30 5 2
31 6 0
32 1 0
33 3 1
34 1 1
35 1 0

 

I'd say this distribution looks more or less as it should.  Given that the offensive aging curve peaks at 27, you'd expect to see a cluster of players a few years before that age.

 

And finally by ranking

Rank AVG WAR
1-10 30.2
11-20 24.6
21-30 21.8
31-40 20.7
41-50 18.1
51-60 16.9
61-70 16
71-80 15.1
81-90 14.4
91-100 13.7

 

The largest gap exists between the top 10 and then next ten, and from there is fairly constant.

 

If you want to see a breakout by position you'll have to either do it yourself using the link below, or better yet get the BtB Newsletter in which Sky will be expounding on the position breakdown.

 

Data

 

The link to the data set is forthcoming.  Apparently Google Docs is blocked on the computer I'm using right now, when it hadn't been previously.  I'll update here when I post the file.  A caveat, relievers are not correct as I just realized I never went back to apply some sort of LI.  There RA is right though, so you can still use that.

 

UPDATE:  Link to data (it's not all players just the top ~250ish, I'll link to all in a few days as a few files got corrupted and I have to recreate them)

 

Thoughts on Individual Players

 

A couple of guys that came up in the discussion were Ubaldo Jimenez and everyone's current darling Stephen Strasburg.  Based on information leading up to this year, Ubaldo didn't crack the top 100 (109th); however, Sean just posted updated projections that lowered Ubaldo's ERA almost half a run.  That would put him 3rd among pitchers, right behind Lincecum.  As for Strasburg, CHONE didn't have a preseason projection for him, so he wasn't included in the data behind the series.  I thought about going to a different system for him, but didn't think that would be a great idea as we'd be comparing red apples to green apples at that point.  However just to give you a feel for things, the Book Blog readers just gave his mean projections (via a poll) to be around a 3.35 ERA.  That's just ahead of Ubaldo, assuming a similar innings level, and likely makes him a top 20ish player going forward.  If you side with the most optimistic projection, THTs Oliver, who has him in the low to mid 2s then he'd likely fall near the top 10.

 

Moving Forward

 

Now that the series is completed, what do you think we can do to improve it?  Suggestions can be either on the methodology side or the presentation side.  A couple that come to my mind are

1.      Run the series before the current season starts.  I think that would be better timing, but maybe not.  What do you all think?

2.      Continue to tweak the methodology, especially the playing time estimates.

 

Finally, many thanks and kudos go out to Satchel for writing all of the pieces.  He did all the heavy lifting and deserves all the credit for how well the series turned out.  I, on the other hand, will be glad to take all of the blame for your favorite player not making the list :)

Comment 16 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

No Buster Posey?

At least, as far as I can tell.

Sad.

My Son, fourth outfielder extraordinaire.
My rule for the 2010 Giants: Everyone with an OPS over .800 gets a pass.
Current Pass Recipients (50 PA min): Whiteside, Huff, Sanchez, Torres

by GiantPain on Jun 10, 2010 3:35 PM EDT reply actions  

He just missed

Once I’m able to get the data up on Google Docs you can see which part of the projection you disagree with.

by stevesommer05 on Jun 10, 2010 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Look forward to it!

My Son, fourth outfielder extraordinaire.
My rule for the 2010 Giants: Everyone with an OPS over .800 gets a pass.
Current Pass Recipients (50 PA min): Whiteside, Huff, Sanchez, Torres

by GiantPain on Jun 10, 2010 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Great Series

The only placement that made me gasp was Cameron Maybin, who shouldn’t be on the list. Otherwise, loved it!

by JD Sussman on Jun 10, 2010 6:09 PM EDT reply actions  

Agreed

Maybin at 21? I mean, I like that guy a lot too, but I don’t see how places above Rasmus.

I like baseball.
I write for Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times Fantasy

by Satchel Price on Jun 10, 2010 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

I never liked em

As a prospect, I always thought he had too many holes in his swing for for a speed guy. There were way too many SO and GB that I never thought his power would develop. He is a great athlete so maybe he’ll turn it around, but I’m not hopeful.

by JD Sussman on Jun 12, 2010 1:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

Cano

Wait was Cano really not on this list at all? Not why he wouldnt be.

by infamy707 on Jun 10, 2010 6:46 PM EDT reply actions  

He's in the next 25.

Probably because UZR/FSR has his fielding as average (TZ is more bullish), he’s already 27, and while his bat’s been awesome this year, his 2008 is ugly and his career high OPS+ is 127.

50-75 is nothing to sneeze at, though. Imagine every team gets two of the best players over the next five years, including pitchers. Cano would be one of those guys (well, just outside). That’s really good.

by Sky Kalkman on Jun 10, 2010 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ok, Thanks for the explanation. Watching Cano play every game I really do beleive UZR underrates him immensely. His arm, range, and double play ability, I feel, is above average.

by infamy707 on Jun 10, 2010 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, while these are objective rankings, there certainly some subjectivity in the methodology chosen and lots of imperfections in measurement.

What’s really nice, though, is that we at least have a frame of reference (well, once the full data set is available). Think Cano has a better glove? Ok, add in five to ten runs per year. Think his hot start is “for real”. Bump his bat up a win a year. Now, some of those changes are easier to convince people of than others. And you’ll certainly get fans of other teams clamoring to improve (or weaken) other player rankings.

The wake-up call on this for me was how much age really matters. Take a 30 year old and a 22 year old that are 3 WAR players this year and they have drastically different future expectations. Something like 3, 3.5, 4, 4.5, 5 WAR vs. 3, 2.5, 2, 1.5, 1 WAR. That’s 20 WAR vs. 10 WAR. The 22 year old is twice as good going forward. (Approximately.)

by Sky Kalkman on Jun 10, 2010 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Yankees

Can’t wait till yankees sign some of these players

Yankee 2010 Shadow Draft
1. A.J Cole-SP
2. Austin Wilson-RF
3. Jesse Hahn-SP

by Lurkingoutside on Jun 10, 2010 7:11 PM EDT reply actions  

I know, right?

Because they’ve got exactly 1 of them right now. Oops.

We’ll see how the Yankees do going forward. Cashman’s a smart fella, but Jeter, Rivera, Pettite and Posada are all getting old – And so is A-Rod, though it’s a pretty awesome sort of old as of yet.

by Patrick42 on Jun 10, 2010 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Two, actually.

A-Rod and Tex. And frankly, there’s room to believe that Hughes could end up on this list in 5 years, too.

I like baseball.
I write for Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times Fantasy

by Satchel Price on Jun 10, 2010 8:15 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

If Montero is somehow able to stick at catcher his value could be maximized and may be on a similar list.

Twitter: @Ben_Duronio

by BenDuronio on Jun 11, 2010 12:22 AM EDT reply actions  

Who is hte 35 year old?

"I throw him four wide ones then try to pick him off first base." - Preacher Roe on Stan Musial

by Shi on Jun 11, 2010 5:16 PM EDT reply actions  

Chris Carpenter I think

One of the “problems” with the methodology is I didn’t age the playing time, so Carp got 190 innings each of the 5 years (likely unrealistic)

by stevesommer05 on Jun 11, 2010 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

We use numbers and stuff.
Community Guidelines
Why be a member?

Follow us on Facebook!

Follow us on Twitter!

SaberGraphics

Yahoo_full_count

MLB Daily Dish

Get the latest MLB Trade Rumors, Transactions, and News at MLB Daily Dish!


Managing Editor:

Jbopp-kc_small Justin Bopp

Columnists:

Adam_small adarowski

Dme_small Satchel Price

Closeup4_small J-Doug

Carlosicon_small Julian Levine

Billy_and_daddy_4th_of_july_small Bill Petti

Featuring:

Dayton_small Jeff Zimmerman

12475953_small Jacob Peterson

Recent_pic_pg_small Patrick Gordon

Btbpro_small Dave Gershman

Me_small Bryan Grosnick

229331_10150183361996591_674441590_6760167_6637860_n3_small Lewie Pollis

Img_3830_small David Fung

30472_1481067225243_1190689185_1381415_997334_n_small Glenn DuPaul

1mnvxku7_small joshuaworn

Set_small MattFilippi18

Photo0011_small Nathaniel Stoltz