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Around SBN: 2011 In Extreme Home Runs

Re-Defining "Good at Everything" (thanks to community feedback)

Just yesterday I wrote a post that attempted to define which players were "Good at Everything". My original goal of the post was lost a bit with the title I chose. The plan was to find all players that were positive in every Rally WAR component. I did that. But I made it sound like it was a definitive list of who was "Good at Everything". It really wasn't.

Luckily, Beyond the Box Score has some fantastic commenters and they helped me out. So, I've got a new list of guys. This list should come closer to capturing guys who were "Good at everything".

Again, here's the original criteria I used:

  • Batting runs, Baserunning runs, Total Zone runs, and Positional Adjustment runs are all greater than 0.
  • GIDP runs, Reach on Error runs, Infield DP runs, Outfield Arm runs, and Catcher runs are all greater than or equal to 0 (this is because some older players only have a 0 for their career because there isn't any data available for these categories).

Simply running this search yielded 49 players in the history of the game.

[...] batting runs is a pretty broad skill. We can break that up into individual skills. So, I went with the two OPS components—on base percentage (for patience) and slugging percentage (for power). I cut out any players below league average for their careers in either of these categories.

In this second version, I added these criteria:

  • Instead of requiring both Total Zone and Position to be above zero, I required the combination of both to be above zero. However, I excluded players with negative Total Zone who still managed to get a positive TZ+Pos.
  • I ignored the "Reached on Error" category.
  • I cut off the list at a 25 WAR minimum. You gotta put in some time to be good at everything. This seemed to be a good cutoff, right after Hall of Famers Freddie Lindstrom and George Wright.

The new list features 40 players:

Star-divide

NamePlAppBatROEBSrunDPTZIFDPOFarmcatcherPosWARPos+TZ
Barry Bonds 12511 1213 -6 45 6 153 0 36 0 -129 171.8 24
Honus Wagner 11518 699 0 45 0 66 19 0 0 104 134.5 170
Tris Speaker 11679 845 0 14 0 92 0 0 0 -72 133.0 20
Nap Lajoie 10239 581 0 2 0 62 21 0 0 6 104.2 68
George Davis 9976 380 0 28 0 143 3 0 0 87 90.7 230
Joe DiMaggio 7657 579 0 30 0 49 0 0 0 -19 83.6 30
Charlie Gehringer 10096 391 0 38 0 30 4 0 0 74 80.9 104
Bill Dahlen 10235 188 0 25 0 139 0 0 0 140 75.9 279
Frankie Frisch 9871 195 0 63 0 115 25 0 0 73 74.8 188
Lou Whitaker 9787 209 -10 33 17 70 7 0 0 51 69.7 121
Alan Trammell 9175 124 12 21 19 59 17 0 0 118 66.9 177
Frank Baker 6507 285 0 7 0 35 0 0 0 52 63.7 87
Jackie Robinson 5689 276 7 39 1 51 28 2 0 20 63.2 71
Sal Bando 8166 208 17 11 5 28 8 0 0 38 60.6 66
Jack Glasscock 7531 116 0 8 0 149 0 0 0 108 58.7 257
Bid McPhee 9359 150 0 37 0 154 0 0 0 42 57.9 196
Billy Herman 8470 167 0 12 0 37 18 0 0 65 55.6 102
Stan Hack 8391 240 0 24 0 2 0 0 0 15 54.8 17
Carlos Beltran 6790 178 11 52 14 67 0 4 0 18 54.7 85
Buck Ewing 5764 231 0 43 0 16 0 0 58 35 51.8 51
Tommy Leach 8811 114 0 43 0 67 0 0 0 5 50.9 72
Ichiro Suzuki 6555 148 3 45 40 93 0 34 0 -52 50.7 41
Max Carey 10480 97 0 106 0 86 0 0 0 -84 50.6 2
Frank Chance 4988 252 0 33 0 47 0 0 0 -25 49.5 22
John McGraw 4894 337 0 24 0 3 0 0 0 34 49.3 37
Hughie Jennings 5538 225 0 20 0 60 0 0 0 51 48.0 111
Heinie Groh 6853 157 0 3 0 35 0 0 0 44 46.4 79
Gil McDougald 5271 94 4 6 2 83 16 0 0 42 40.0 125
Eric Chavez 5242 108 -5 5 4 61 2 0 0 12 36.2 73
Dan McGann 5881 159 0 14 0 37 0 0 0 -34 36.2 3
Don Buford 5266 111 -1 10 12 58 0 4 0 -10 35.5 48
Fred Dunlap 4264 147 0 3 0 80 0 0 0 19 34.7 99
Harlond Clift 6841 141 0 5 0 3 0 0 0 18 34.7 21
Chase Utley 3777 140 1 20 13 49 4 0 0 15 34.5 64
Ross Barnes 2506 252 0 15 0 57 0 0 0 15 33.1 72
Joe Mauer 2959 162 -6 6 2 0 0 0 41 31 33.1 31
Dom DiMaggio 6421 111 0 25 0 37 0 0 0 -11 31.9 26
Robby Thompson 5117 43 18 18 5 18 18 0 0 28 31.0 46
Freddie Lindstrom 5958 79 0 14 0 21 0 0 0 10 29.2 31
George Wright 2942 128 0 16 0 75 0 0 0 35 28.5 110

 

New faces on the list:

  • Barry Bonds: gets on there despite a huge positional adjustment hit thanks to amazing total zone numbers.
  • Tris Speaker: his total zone was also enough to overcome the positional adjustment.
  • Joe DiMaggio: had only a minor positional adjustment hit that was easily overcome.
  • Lou Whitaker: so glad to see him on here—was only left off because of ROE.
  • Ichiro: easily overcomes his positional hit with awesome range. He's another active player for the list.
  • Max Carey: HOFer's range beats out positional adjustment by two runs.
  • Frank Chance: slick-fielding first basemen CAN make this list!
  • Eric Chavez: betchya didn't see THAT coming—only missed the first time because of ROE.
  • Dan McGann: turn of the century slick-fielding first bagger makes that two.
  • Don Buford: call him "slightly above average at everything"—makes up for a minor positional hit.
  • Joe Mauer: only ROE held him back the first time.
  • Dom DiMaggio: when one DiMaggio isn't enough.

I'm more comfortable with this list. Are you?

Comment 13 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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A few things I gathered from this:

- I keep asking myself why people didn’t appreciate the Trammel/Whitaker combination more. I mean, how many teams can boast two HOF-quality middle infielders at once?
- It’s hard to remember how awesome Eric Chavez was before all of the injuries. I just looked up “chavez fangraphs” on Google, and the top link was for Endy Chavez, Eric’s page wasn’t even listed. Ah, how the mighty fall.
- Apparently Home Run Baker did far more than just hit home runs, he was a pretty damn well-rounded player. Go figure.

I like baseball.
I write for Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times Fantasy

by Satchel Price on May 20, 2010 1:49 PM EDT reply actions  

I'd venture to say he was good at everything

And looking at his value breakdown it’s true. He was a hotshot with the glove, played a high-value position, knocked the crap out of the ball, and even held his own on the bases. When you look at his WAR in relation to his plate appearances, you notice just how great he was.

On Twitter: @baseballtwit

by adarowski on May 20, 2010 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Heh.

“This seemed to be a good cutoff, right after Hall of Famers Freddie Lindstrom and George Wright.”

… and the most glaring HOF omission of all time – Robby Thompson. :-)

by cmuzyka on May 20, 2010 2:01 PM EDT reply actions  

One could argue

That Mr. Thompson’s HOF case is about as good as Mr. Lindstrom’s. :)

On Twitter: @baseballtwit

by adarowski on May 20, 2010 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Whitaker

FWIW, I slept much better last night after Lou Whitaker made the second version of this list. He’s approaching Dan Quisenberry on my “ohmygodhessounderrated!” scale.

On Twitter: @baseballtwit

by adarowski on May 20, 2010 2:02 PM EDT reply actions  

Whitaker and Trammel both

make this list. I honestly think the 1984 Tigers are the most underrated team ever. Not one hall of famer (though Morris might make it). Bill James called Darrell Evens the most underrated player ever, but I think it is Trammel or maybe Whitaker, anyway it’s definitely someone on the 84 Tigers. Why doesn’t anyone seem to notice those guys?

- Matt Sullivan
A good friend of mine used to say, "This is a very simple game. You throw the ball, you catch the ball, you hit the ball. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes it rains." Think about that for a while. - Nuke LaLoosh

by Mattsullivan on May 20, 2010 4:32 PM EDT reply actions  

Not just 1984. Look at 1968.

So weird. They simply have unbelievably underrated players.

From 1984:

Lou Whitaker 69.7
Alan Trammell 66.9
Darrell Evans 57.3
Chet Lemon 49.9 (!!!)
Jack Morris 39.3
Kirk Gibson 37.1
Lance Parrish 35.7

From 1968:

Norm Cash 52.9
Mickey Lolich 45.6
Bill Freehan 43.3
John Hiller 28.2 (sick for a reliever)

On Twitter: @baseballtwit

by adarowski on May 20, 2010 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Eric FREAKING Chavez?

WTY's ERA+ = 171 : - ) -- Kevin Frandsen > Brandon Wood??????

by Figgi4life on May 20, 2010 6:26 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

I’m just comforted knowing that Jack Glasscock’s position on the list has held up.

Bettman's Nightmare: We See a Good Bettman/Fans Metaphor When We See One, and Frankly, Lane Smith Was Too Hard on Emilio Estevez When He Was A Kid.

http://bettmansnightmare.blogspot.com/

by Bettman's Nightmare on May 20, 2010 8:28 PM EDT reply actions  

Still no Larkin?

I thought he only missed because of the ROEs?

by ken on May 21, 2010 10:17 AM EDT reply actions  

Turning two

He’s actually also -10 in turning the double play.

On Twitter: @baseballtwit

by adarowski on May 21, 2010 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

Good on Bonds

Any list which claims to rank players who were good at everything is not complete without Senor Barry. PEDs or not, the man was an amazing player.

Goodbye, Steven Johnson, we hardly knew ye. Seriously, that was short.

by quincy0191 on Jun 9, 2010 2:17 AM EDT reply actions  

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