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Friday High Fives: Most Underrated Players in MLB

This week we asked our writers, "Who are the most underrated players in baseball?"  There was a bit of agreement, but Chase Utley was the only player to be listed on even four of the eleven ballots.  Here are the top five vote-getters, awarding five points for a first place vote down to one point for a fifth place vote:

Name 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th Ballots Score
Shin-Soo Choo 2 1 3 12
Chase Utley 1 1 2 4 12
Mike Cameron 1 1 1 3 10
Jim Edmonds 1 1 2 9
Mike Napoli 1 1 2 9

 

Steve Sommer: Shin-Soo Choo put up a 5 WAR season last year?  Who knew?  He's coming off of consecutive years with wOBAs above 0.380.

Adam Darowski: People know Chase Utley is awesome, and yet I still think the general conception is that he's the third best player on the team behind Howard and Rollins.

Peter Hjort: Mike Napoli gets no respect, even though he's probably one of the top 5 or so hitting catchers in the game.

The full results are listed after the jump, with every vote from every voter noted, and a lot more commentary.

Star-divide

Name Score Jbopp Satchel Peter Tommy Adam Daniel Steve Sky Dan Michael J-Doug
Shin-Soo Choo 12 4 1 1 4
Chase Utley 12 3 4 1
Mike Cameron 10 5 1 2
Jim Edmonds 9 1 2
Mike Napoli 9 1 2
Josh Willingham 8 3 1
Kurt Suzuki 8 1 3
Jayson Werth 6 5 1
Andre Ethier 5 1
Carl Crawford 5 1
James Shields 5 4 3
Adrian Gonzalez 4 2
Carl Pavano 4 2
David Dejesus 4 2
Franklin Gutierrez 4 2
John Danks 4 2
Marlon Byrd 4 2
Matt Kemp 4 2
Scott Rolen 4 2
Cole Hamels 3 3
Doug Fister 3 3
Josh Johnson 3 3
Kendry Morales 3 3
Mark Buehrle 3 3
Wandy Rodriguez 3 3
Brett Gardner 3 5 4
Carlos Ruiz 2 4
Chris Iannetta 2 4
Jim Thome 2 4
Martin Prado 2 4
Zack Greinke 2 4
Albert Pujols 1 5
Alex Rios 1 5
Cliff Lee 1 5
Hiroki Kuroda 1 5
JD Drew 1 5
The Padres' Bullpen apart from Heath Bell 1 5
Tony Gwynn, Jr. 1 5

 

JBopp: I nominate the most-overshadowed guys in the nation: Andre Ethier and Matt Kemp. When not over-compensating for the stationary monolith in left (and hurting their UZR in the process), these guys are providing .350+ to.380+ wOBAs and +3 to +5 WAR to the Dodgers at an insanely modest price of $5M-$8M this year.

Imagine how much a team like the Royals (paying Guillen $12M) could benefit from a couple guys at that value.

Satchel: Suzuki has quietly emerged as the best catcher in his division, a solidly above average backstop with plus defensive skills and a solid all-around bat.

Pavano continues to put up impressive numbers since regaining his health last season. Pavano's time in New York sticks out the most in the public's mind, but he's re-emerged as one of the better starters in the league.

Willingham is essentially Jason Bay without the counting numbers and $66M contract. He's a 20+ run bat over the course of a full season.

Ruiz is overshadowed in Philly by the bigger names, but he's continued to prove that he's just another above average regular in a stacked lineup. If he played on a lesser team, people would appreciate this guy more.

He's had some trouble staying healthy, which has prevented him from gaining the reputation as a top of the rotation pitcher. But when he's been healthy, that's exactly what he's been.

Peter: Mike Napoli gets no respect, even though he's probably one of the top 5 or so hitting catchers in the game. 

There are maybe 15 starting pitchers in the game that are *clearly* better than John Danks, but he's still often thought of as the #4 starter on the White Sox

Cole Hamels is the exact same guy he was in '08, yet because his ERA has ballooned for reasons that mostly have nothing to do with him, fans are down on him. 

The Rockies are extremely lucky to have a catcher as good as Chris Iannetta, yet he's rotting in AAA while they use Miguel Olivo every day. 

There are three or four guys in the Padres' bullpen just as capable, if not more so, of closing games as Heath Bell is.

Tommy: Despite being four of the top outfielders in the American League, there is a decent chance that three or even all four of [Crawford, Gutierrez, Choo, and Rios] won't be in Anaheim for the All-Start game. Bigger names, although less deserving, win popularity contests. Carl Crawford is is a name people know, but few really know how good this guy is. I guess they'll find out next year.

Adam: There are many, many different ways to approach "underrated". I decided to go the "career value"/"how they rank in the history of the game" approach. So, while some of these guys may not be performing at their peaks any longer, I think their careers are incredibly undervalued.

Daniel: I answered as if it's referring to career underratedness, as opposed to current.

People know Utley is awesome, and yet I still think the general conception is that he's the third best player on the team behind Howard and Rollins.

Stuck mostly to position players since great starters tend to be recognized - even Greinke won the Cy last year despite the relative lack of wins - but Shields is a consistently very good pitcher that I think often doesn't get his due.

Steve: Shin-Soo Choo put up a 5 WAR season last year?  Who knew?  He's coming off of consecutive years with wOBAs above 0.380. 

I also didn't know Martin Prado had been hovering around 3 WAR until I was doing a little research for this specific question. 

Wandy and Werth are only underrated because of the teams they play on, one out of the spotlight and one overshadowed. 

I've always though Dejesus was solid and the numbers show that with WARs in the 2-3 range every year.

Sky: Shin-Soo Choo's been a top twenty-five player over the past two years.  How many people view him like that?

Even if Napoli's skills as a catcher are as lacking as people think, his bat and ability to at least play the position make him quite a valuable commodity.

Suzuki's another catcher who's a bit underrated, but in his case it's because he defense skills are top-notch and his bat has quietly improved into the "causes consistent damage" level.

Everyone knows Utley's pretty good, but few recognize he's Pujols-good.

If it's possible for a Yankee to be underrated Gardner's your guy.  His .400 OBP and 17 steals so far in 2010 are starting to get him noticed.

Dan: Despite the Phillies being in the past two World Series, Utley still isn't getting his due.  In the view of the masses, he's at-best the third most important Phillie behind Howard and J-Roll.

Adrian Gonzalez is known more for the possible (inevitable?) trade to the Red Sox than for his amazing performance.

Josh Johnson is just another anonymous Florida pitcher - though to be honest, the bland name doesn't help.

Even though Zack Greinke won the Cy last year, he's still overlooked by many.

And Pujols is on this list despite being considered the best player in baseball because I don't think people understand how phenomenal he actually is. He's got a shot at passing Gehrig for best first baseman ever if he keeps it up.

Michael: Jayson Werth is so underrated that I even forgot his name until I checked the FanGraphs WAR leaderboards for the past three years. Werth has 11.5 WAR since 2008, second most on the Phillies. He is probably their third or fourth best player, but is probably considered their sixth or seventh.

J-Doug: It may be difficult to spot Josh Willingham in the highlight reel; he's not even the biggest star on a team that isn't exactly full of them. But the Nats outfielder hasn't cooled off since the second half of 2009, posting an OPS above .900 and ranking top 20 in WPA.

Marlon Byrd is near the top of the MLB in WAR, and his BABIP isn't that much higher than his career mark. He could be in for a huge season.

You think the Mariners are in bad shape right now? Imagine where they'd be without Doug Fister and his 1.71 ERA.

Is it possible that a Yankees center fielder batting .330 can really be underrated? You can be if you're Brett Gardner. Nobody expects him to keep this up, but I'm telling you we have no idea how good this kid can be. Every ground ball is a potential hit, and he's a lot stronger than you think.

Junior Gwynn is the best defender in baseball (by UZR/150) but he hasn't had much of a chance to show off, what with his poor offensive numbers. Expect these to pick up soon as well.

Poll
Who do YOU think is the most underrated player in MLB?
Shin-Soo Choo
136 votes
Chase Utley
79 votes
Mike Cameron
10 votes
Jim Edmonds
6 votes
Mike Napoli
12 votes
Josh Willingham
22 votes
Kurt Suzuki
20 votes
Jayson Werth
29 votes
Andre Ethier
24 votes
Carl Crawford
7 votes
James Shields
19 votes

364 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 46 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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Nelson Cruz????

Even his manager didn’t fully trust him last year.

"When you play Happy," Andrus said, "good things will happen."

by Feliz es bueno on May 16, 2010 12:40 PM EDT reply actions  

Along the Ranger line...

Ian Kinsler (0.2 WAR behind Dustin Pedroia last year; played in ten fewer games)? According to UZR, had the second-best defensive season at 2B, and DRS had him ranked first.

by jwiscarson on May 16, 2010 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Cruz is still in that not-sure-if-trust

status with the league. He was so awesome last year but nobody wants to admit they’re waiting for him to do it again before they believe it.

And yes, Kinsler should probably be on this list.

by Justin Bopp on May 17, 2010 8:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

When I did a Q&A with Jesse Spector I said Utley, so I won't sway from that.

1. I don’t know if Edmonds is underrated much anymore, but he certainly was back in the day.
2. Umm, Doug Fister? I “get” to watch him every time he pitches and he really isn’t underrated.
3. No love for the 2009 AL WAR leader, Ben Zobrist?

by Zach Sanders on May 16, 2010 1:21 PM EDT reply actions  

Kendry Morales

He is the Angels Offense at this point

Aybar is a nowhere man, Sitting in his Nowhere Land, Making all his nowhere plans for nobody.

by princeton11loveshalos on May 16, 2010 1:33 PM EDT reply actions  

As did I

Guy can play

Orioles blogging at Camden Crazies | Follow on Twitter at @CamdenCrazies

by Daniel Moroz on May 16, 2010 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I totally forgot about Choo

I’ve considered him a great player for a while now that it slips my mind that most people don’t realize that.

He’s arguably the best outfielder in the AL right now.

I like baseball.
I write for Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times Fantasy

by Satchel Price on May 16, 2010 6:11 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Werth is a really good one too

People seem to notice his beard more than his impressive combination of power, defense and a developed approach at the plate.

I like baseball.
I write for Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times Fantasy

by Satchel Price on May 16, 2010 6:18 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

I guess it would depend, at least to me on what you mean by underrated,

Werth doesn’t seem all that underrated to me in MSM, though to be honest I try to limit my exposure to MSM, at least not compared to how underrated Utley is IMO and Hamels to an extent. I feel like everyone, even Philly fans, seem to have completely forgotten Hamels damn near won the WS by himself and he’s like the red headed step child of Philly now. Where as people love Werth, although it may be for the wrong reasons.

I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.

by Gina on May 16, 2010 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Here's how I felt

If you asked Philly fans where Werth ranks among their players, where would they put him?

Probably behind Halladay, Howard, J-Rol, Utley at least, and I wouldn’t be surprised if they stuck him behind Victorino as well. He’s probably their third best player, but doesn’t get that kind of love.

Then again, maybe I just don’t know Philly fans.

by SFiercex4 on May 16, 2010 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dewan seems to think Utley

As he has Utley more valuable than Pujols over the last 5+ years.

Interesting, what say the experts here?

"I support you, Wash; I’ve always supported you," Young said
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW

by Rodney on May 16, 2010 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

But I don't think he's better than Halladay, Utley and even Howard to begin with

though I think him and Howard are pretty close. But i think that’s more a product of Howard being insanely overrated by everyone to ridiculous extents than Werth being underrated. And I think you could make an argument for Rollins deserving to be above there, even though Rollins has clearly declined I think you’re always going to have a player who was as good as Rollins was being rated above somewhat lesser known quantities when he first enters his decline stage, I mean by WAR until last year Rollins was better. I imagine Werth would rank pretty safely in the top 5-6 players by most Philly fans, maybe even higher by MSM because of his “blue collar status”, where as they all seem to actually hate Hamels.

I wonder if Carl Everett believes Jamie Moyer exists.

by Gina on May 16, 2010 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

It might be too early to say this

But I think Mike Aviles is possibly the best player no one’s heard of. It doesn’t help that the Royals are determined to force him to fail, but even still he’s average defensively at SS above average at 2B and could easily hit .360-.370 wOBA, which makes him a top 5 player at either position.

"We don’t have guys with a long history of being effective in the seventh and eighth innings."
~Trey Hillman, master of understatements.

by RoyalPug on May 16, 2010 8:14 PM EDT reply actions  

Underrated is such a funny word.

I mean, are any of really qualified to say who is and is not underrated? By whose standards? I thought about mentioning Zack Greinke, Chase Utley, etc…but seriously. I was thinking, “people I don’t consider the best players in the game.”

Preamble aside, I’d like to retract my votes for the LA Dodger Outfield. I have a couple things coming this week which should clarify.

by Justin Bopp on May 16, 2010 9:09 PM EDT reply actions  

Kemp was tragically underrated last year.

If I recall, he inexplicably didn’t make the all star team, and Torre batted him 8th for like half the season. That should have been criminal.

by Evan_S on May 17, 2010 5:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

I have to be honest,

when I made my picks, I was looking for guys at the top of the WAR charts that I thought didn’t get a lot of pub.

I should have looked a little closer at the defensive metrics, but even though he’s the WORST DEFENSIVE CENTER FIELDER IN THE GAME (see: upcoming Graph of the Day on Weds), I really like his approach at the plate.

by Justin Bopp on May 17, 2010 8:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ty Wigginton is raking it people!

I realize that his stats, all around, aren’t so hot. I also realize that his current effort right now is probably a statistical fluke; but come on? He’s the only Oriole doing anything with a bat this year.

"'Tis the time's plague when madmen lead the blind."

by Rube on May 16, 2010 9:13 PM EDT reply actions  

My favorite baseball fallacy

“best guy on a bad team”

That said, I’d give him a +4 on “name that sounds like a baseball player.”

by Justin Bopp on May 17, 2010 8:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think that the very notion of calling Andre Ethier and Matt Kemp underrated is absolutely ridiculous. I see that Bopp retracted his votes, but they are high profile stars who get plenty of press despite the fact that Manny is patrolling (hah) left field in Chavez Ravine. They have bargain contracts because they’re not through their arbitration years yet and don’t play good defense. Utley and Werth are valuable because they play good offense and defense, though I think to call them underrated is a bit silly; they’re only underrated relative to some other very valuable teammates. People are well aware that these players are good.

I’d say that Shin-Soo Choo, Kurt Suzuki, and Franklin Gutierrez are all excellent choices. Choo has put up excellent offensive numbers while playing roughly average defense in a corner outfield positionm Kurt Suzuki had a .350 OBP and slugged .500 last year despite a .250 BABIP and is an excellent defensive catcher, and Franklin Gutierrez was worth 6.1 WAR last year thanks to fantastic defense and 18 home runs while playing at Safeco.

Adoptive father of the enigmatic Michael Sandoval, and living vicariously through his proximity to Joe Mauer and the Panda.

by Solidarity on May 16, 2010 11:06 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Mike Napoli is one of the worst-defending catchers in the Majors

people said Adam Dunn was underrated before UZR went public.

You guys win. You can keep your little marked-out piece of internet territory. Spend your days communicating via keyboard with people too ugly for the real world and too nerdy for anyone to care, anyway. Your piece of land is here. Do the rest of civilization a favor and stay within its limits. You bore me. Have fun with your nightly sobs and screams into your pillow over your inability to attract a good mate, Radiohead. ~The Hooligan

by Daniel Berlyn on May 17, 2010 12:13 AM EDT reply actions  

Mike Cameron

Most people don’t understand how good this guy has been, for his career, and even recently. He hits for a low average, and is considered a hacker because of his high K rates, but he gets on base, is a plus baserunner, and clearly a plus defender at a premium position. Combine that with some legitimate power, consistency for over a decade, and the fact that he has played in some putrid offensive environments, and you have a guy who, if he manages to stay in the league a while longer, will start getting deserved hall of fame consideration.

by Navi's_Navy on May 17, 2010 1:08 AM EDT reply actions  

Will the sabermetric community have time to fight for Cameron's cause..

… when he have to focus on Jim Edmonds? Seriously, I know he’s still playing but we gotta get that boat moving soon.

I like baseball.
I write for Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times Fantasy

by Satchel Price on May 17, 2010 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

I have to say Utley

Most Phillie fans don’t realize he’s their best player, and most fans don’t realize he’s pretty much the second best player to Pujols in all of baseball. He’s underrated in the MSM, who have given MVPs to both Rollins and Howard when Utley has had much better seasons then both. If you asked most people, I’m sure people would say Howard has been the best player on the team since they’ve had this core of players.

Being a Met fan, I’m very defensive of my team, so I also have to say that all three of Wright, Reyes and Beltran are extremely underrated, at least in NY (and not just by Yankee fans here, a ton of Met fans as well). When the MSM here talks about these three, they pretty much only talk about Beltran looking at strike 3 and how he’s one of the most overpaid players in baseball, Wright choking in September of 07 & 08 (even though he had an OPS near 1.000 in both of them) and how Reyes is an immature baby who sucks when it counts. I’m shocked how many times trading Wright or Reyes has come up by Mets fans. Peolple don’t get how good they are. And regarding Beltran, remember last year when Steve Phillips said he’d take Mclouth over him? I thought that was absurd. Posnanski did an excellent article after that on how unbelievable of a player he truly is. I guess for the most part though, outside of New York, these guys are seen as the spectacular players they are.

by Evan_S on May 17, 2010 5:21 AM EDT reply actions  

Whoa nelly.

I think “2nd best” is pretty much tied up by the giant catcher in Minnesota. Even then, 3rd would be pretty close between 3-4 other guys, including Utley.

by Justin Bopp on May 17, 2010 8:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

That's true.

You could even argue Greinke over Pujols/Mauer last year…since Greinke did pull more WAR.

by jwiscarson on May 17, 2010 8:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't know, at the very moment, when I think of the best position players in the game, I think

Albert Pujols, Chase Utley, Joe Mauer, Hanley Ramirez and Evan Longoria, currently.

I like baseball.
I write for Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times Fantasy

by Satchel Price on May 17, 2010 12:40 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I don't think Mauer is a clear cut #2 by any means

I think you could easily argue that Utley could be #2.

Free Dan Johnson!

by Sveet on May 17, 2010 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Absolutely.

Right now, I kind of see it as:

1. Pujols
2. Utley
2. Mauer
4. Ramirez
5. Longoria

Obviously, there’s a lot of discussion to be had when you’re talking about the fine differences between particularly special players.

I like baseball.
I write for Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times Fantasy

by Satchel Price on May 17, 2010 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

On pure ability, I'd take Mauer in a pinch, probably over Utley too.

However, given the demands of his position it makes it hard to take him outside a vacuum. I do think that Mauer is undervalued because I really believe he’s one of the best catchers in the game as well as hitters, and metrics can’t fully capture that yet.

You guys win. You can keep your little marked-out piece of internet territory. Spend your days communicating via keyboard with people too ugly for the real world and too nerdy for anyone to care, anyway. Your piece of land is here. Do the rest of civilization a favor and stay within its limits. You bore me. Have fun with your nightly sobs and screams into your pillow over your inability to attract a good mate, Radiohead. ~The Hooligan

by Daniel Berlyn on May 17, 2010 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

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