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Are we going too far with Morris? Are we now treating him far worse than we should be? Feels wrong—I was a big fan as a kid.

over 1 year ago Limes_125_tiny Sky Kalkman 10 comments 0 recs  | 

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Yes and no (per usual). My opinions:

One, the anti-Morris argument is so strong because the pro-Morris argument is so strong. The vocal minority is trying to match the majority in strength. On its own, the anti-Morris movement seems a bit much, but it’s “needed”.

Two, I don’t see a lot of people saying Morris was crappy. He was pretty good, not great. In a vacuum, that’s a positive view. But when you argue to that line from where Morris-lovers have him, it comes across as a negative, which it really isn’t.

Three, but yes, if someone’s arguing Morris wasn’t all that good, that’s definitely going too far.

Four, I was a fan of Alvaro Espinoza as a kid. The fact that he sucked doesn’t mean I shouldn’t have liked him. People can like anyone — and it’s easier to do with someone like Morris who was pretty good.

Five, I’m not a big fan of the black-and-whiteness of the Hall of Fame. Morris is closer to being a Hall of Famer than he is most other pitchers to play in the majors or than Bert Blyleven is to Pedro Martinez. If we could just honor players for being who they were, that would be awesome.

by Sky Kalkman on Dec 28, 2010 1:28 PM EST reply actions  

Also...
  • The anti-Morris effort is probably increased because of the pro-Bert movement.
  • The anit-Morris effort is probably taking attention away from others who will apparently need some support, like Bagwell and Walker. That’s too bad.

by Sky Kalkman on Dec 28, 2010 1:37 PM EST reply actions  

It does suck that some vote Morris, but not Bert.

But perhaps we should also be looking for people who support Mattingly and not Bagwell… Or similar combos like that. Bert is obviously better. Just too bad a solid pitcher has to be “sacrificed” by the saber community to make a point.

On Twitter: @baseballtwit

by adarowski on Dec 30, 2010 7:17 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Great comments, Sky.

They seem to echo JoePo’s recent piece about guys that shouldn’t make the hall, but were still good players. Gives a lot to think about and just how significant getting to the Hall really is.

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by Justin Bopp on Dec 29, 2010 12:28 PM EST reply actions  

He was a good player

But undeserving of the Hall. He’s not even a borderline case, imo. No reason to sugarcoat it.

by James Kannengieser on Dec 29, 2010 9:03 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

I think he is if you're a big hall person.

I like the approach of wanting new inductees to raise the bar of the Hall. Just because Schalk is in, we can’t put in Darrell Porter. I get that. Morris would definitely be in the lower tier, but not the worst enshrined.

I don’t support him. I’m just uncomfortable bashing him. He’s my Harold Baines.

On Twitter: @baseballtwit

by adarowski on Dec 30, 2010 7:26 AM EST up reply actions  

He has a career 105 ERA+

I just can’t put in a guy who’s been a ever so slightly above average pitcher over his career. It’s not like his peak was that great either. <40 WAR, especially from a guy who was relatively healthy for his entire career, isn’t even borderline IMO.

Skip Schumaker is a scapegoat

by vivaelpujols on Dec 30, 2010 1:43 PM EST up reply actions  

As usual, Poz says it better than I ever could.
Here’s the thing that bugs me most: Jack Morris has a Hall of Fame case. I don’t buy in, but I can see the case. He was an extremely durable pitcher who completed a lot of games and won a lot of games and pitched one of the more famous World Series games ever. There’s a case for him. But to make that case, logic insists that you MUST ACKNOWLEDGE Bert Blyleven first. Because Blyleven was better than Morris in every way that Morris was good. He was MORE durable, and completed MORE games, and he won MORE games, and he was so clearly more dominant in every way that can be recorded. And, as mentioned, when they faced each other in the postseason, Blyleven’s team won.

On Twitter: @baseballtwit

by adarowski on Dec 30, 2010 9:46 PM EST up reply actions  

That isn't really a good argument for why Morris should be considered a hall of famer

There are many players who, like Morris, were durable and slightly above average. Almost none of them are the Hall of Fame. If you’re (not you specifically) using that one playoff start to justify his induction, than I just think that’s crap logic.

The best argument for Morris in the Hall of Fame is that worse guys are in. And that’s a feeble argument.

Skip Schumaker is a scapegoat

by vivaelpujols on Dec 31, 2010 2:20 AM EST up reply actions  

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