Newbie Hitters on the 2011 Hall of Fame Ballot, Graphically
We're a few weeks removed from the 2010 Hall of Fame election, an election that went rather swimmingly, I must say. While the results of this past election is still fresh in our minds, I figure there's no better time like the present to start making the case for some of the new hitters on the 2011 Hall of Fame ballot. The sooner we can start educating, the better for some of these players.
What's that you say? You mean the vast majority of the BBWAA doesn't subscribe to Beyond the Boxscore in their favorite RSS reader? Well, pooh. There goes my self-esteem. That also probably explains some of the latest results. Well, at least we can dust off the WAR graphs and begin to form some good, old-fashioned BBTF Groupthink Approved thoughts on who belongs in the Hall of Merit for next year.
Time to break out the tried and true WAR Trajectory graphs. In all graphs, we're plotting Sean (CHONE) Smith's WAR for individual seasons, ranked best to worst. The "HoF Zone" is a range that spans from the average Hall of Famer down to the 20th percentile Hall of Famer. The template comes from our own JinAZ, and a bunch of folks assisted in the effort of their creation. (Sky Kalkman, Jeff Zimmerman, Tom Tango, and Dave Studeman).
(Click on the image for a larger view).
Jeff Bagwell is a no-brainer, at least I would think. If writers are looking for strikes against him, he doesn't have 500 homers or 3000 hits, and he inexplicably made just four All-Star teams over his illustrious 15-year career. Bagwell has more career WAR than Johnny Mize (70.1), Eddie Murray (66.7), Willie McCovey (65.1) and Harmon Killebrew (61.2).
My concern for Larry Walker is that he will get punished more for playing most of his career in Colorado than Palmeiro will for his use of steroids. I think in the early days of Coors Field, writers, fans and even GM's were prone to get a little enamored with the inflated numbers that came out of the high altitude. (Consider the contracts that this guy and this guy received as cases in point). The backlash has been is that too many people view all Colorado hitters with an unhealthy dose of suspicion now. Think of how many in the mainstream were yakking about Matt Holliday's Home/Road splits after he was traded to Oakland last year. This is why using WAR works, it neutralizes the crazy park effects. FanGraph's wRAA, which does not adjust for park on the player's career stats, gives Walker credit for 570 runs above average. After Rally made applied his park-adjustments, Walker's career RAA is 384. (Of course, FanGraphs does apply park factors when calculating its version of WAR).
In spite of the penalty, Walker is still very much in the Hall of Fame "zone". He's not a exactly a no-doubter like Bagwell, but he's up there with the likes of Groupthink Approved new HOM inductees Edgar Martinez, Barry Larkin, and Roberto Alomar. And he's right up there with Tony Gwynn, another player who hit .350 or better in multiple seasons. Walker did it four times, Gwynn, seven. Walker doesn't have the counting stats of Gwynn, but he won seven Gold Gloves and was one heck of a surprisingly good baserunner.
Jack Moore of FanGraphs took a good look at John Olerud's Hall of Fame case and found he compares well with Dawson. If you're a Dawson guy, you probably should consider Olerud as well. It would be cool to see someone wearing a batting helmet instead of a ballcap on their plaque in Cooperstown.
Lastly, we have Rafael Palmeiro, who is next in line to be the steroids whipping boy. I'm sure there are some who will argue his stats are better than McGwire's, but the gulf between the two isn't big. McGwire has three less WAR over his career, but had 3919 less plate appearances. Both players had their careers prolonged by steroids (I guess, I don't really know for sure), but McGwire did a little more with less, and his peak was better.
I would personally vote Bagwell and Walker, to go with Blyleven, Larkin, Trammell, Gar, Alomar and Raines for 2011. I don't know what to do with Palmeiro or McGwire. Please don't pummel me with rocks, steroid-ambivalent folk.
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To be honest, nobody knows what to do with them. And I think that limbo will rightly keep them out of the HOF.
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by Bettman's Nightmare on Jan 17, 2010 11:34 AM EST reply actions
Seeing Bagwell on that graph brings a tear to my eye
And that tear is because I get the feeling that because he doesn’t have 500 HR, and his team was bad in the post season during the peak of his career, I’ll have wait two years and hopefully see the BWAA fall in love with inducting both he and Biggio together.
The Crawfishboxes
A good friend of mine used to say, "This is a very simple game. You throw the ball, you catch the ball, you hit the ball. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes it rains." Think about that for a while.
by Stephen Higdon on Jan 17, 2010 12:24 PM EST reply actions
As I expected...
We pretty mUch have the same ballot (though I go back and forth on Lee Smith).
I doubt Walker gets the support he deserves. I assume Bags goes in, but I assumed 90% for Alomar. Who knows at this point?
Kevin Brown will be on the ballot, too.
I could go for him, and I should have at least made mention of him. Brown had 64.8 career WAR over 19 years, good for 34th overall. That’s despite being hit by a rash of injury-shortened seasons. Brown averaged 4 WAR per 200 innings. He had an outstanding five-year peak of 34.6 WAR in ‘96-’00, and a total of 25.1 Wins Above Excellence. That’s a solid resume.
godfather of futureredbirds.net
Oh right
I forgot about Brown too, both being on the ballot and being in the Mitchell Report. WAR loves him but I haven’t found a casual (non-saber) fan that thinks of him as a HOFer. I’m sure the writers don’t, regardless of the Mitchell Report details.
Did he ever speak about those allegations? I suppose this will be the year he’d have to talk about it if he wants to be considered.
I'm surprised more casual fans don't see him as a HoFamer.
That ’96 to ’01 peak was pretty damn good. Too many seasons lost to injury? Too many inner circle HoF pitchers active at the same time?
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Market size?
His best 3-year peak was in Florida and San Diego. Could that have something to do with it? And even his nice stretch in LA has the East Coast bias to deal with. Those are my guesses.
This
Plus the extreme media backlash against his years on the Yankees. Yeah, they came in his age 39 and 40 seasons, but he caught an awful lot of flack. His greatness came in relative obscurity, and then he went down in a very visible ball of flames.
Maybe I’m remembering this wrong, but wasn’t he also rather prickly with the media? Or at least very private?
Defending maligned chants since 2009
there was also a report of him pulling a gun on his neighbor
over a dispute over “yard debris”. Sounds like a real class act.
godfather of futureredbirds.net
Was thinking about doing this myelf.
I’m good with Bags and Walker. I honestly didn’t think Walker would make the cut before looking at the data, mostly due to playing time. That makes his overall WAR total important, and he’s over the 60 WAR mark.
Olerud is borderline, but I think just misses for me. Though I’d have to compare him to Dawson, Murphy, and Mattingly to be confident of that. Looks like a fairly similar career curve at first blush.
Palmiero…I dunno either. If it weren’t for the steroids crap, I’d probably say he’s certainly in. And my inclination has been to grant amnesty over the whole steroids mess, because as far as we know everyone was doing it. So I think I say yes. Looks kind of similar to Tim Raines in terms of overall value if I’m remembering Raines’ curve correctly.
So, where’s that put me? Blyleven, Bagwell, Alomar, Larkin, Trammell, Martinez, Raines, McGwire, Walker, Palmiero.
And I’d vote for Appier if he was still on the ballot.
Yikes, I must be a big hall kind of guy…no one uses all 10 spots on their ballot, do they?
-j
I write at:
Beyond the Boxscore | Red Reporter | Basement-Dwellers.com | Twitter: @jinazreds
I'm sort of the opposite
I will presume innocence until otherwise proven, although I’m not quite naive to believe that it was really that way. It would help more if the proven guilty players were more forthcoming, and had a little stronger HoF resumes. It’s logic you can poke a zillion holes through, I know.
10 guys doesn’t sound like too many, the ballot is getting loaded more and more. 2012’s newbies are a weak crop, so hopefully by then things will sort out. Then 2013 will be super-interesting- Bonds, Clemens, Sosa, Biggio, Schilling and the underrated Kenny Lofton. It’s going to be a real poop-tsunami in the media, which might only help Biggio and Schilling.
godfather of futureredbirds.net
The same file works for pitchers
You just have to assign the HoF Zone line to the next column iirc. Check it out—if nothing is obvious, let me know and I’ll try to get better directions. :)
-j
I write at:
Beyond the Boxscore | Red Reporter | Basement-Dwellers.com | Twitter: @jinazreds
The equations for the 20th and 50th percentiles:
http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2009/5/19/878150/war-graphs-average-and-replacement#15893432
I assume Justin has made the hitter gray area line just run down the middle of the two and would recommend doing the same for the pitchers. Then make the gray line really wide until it covers all the area between 20th and 50th percentile.
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by Sky Kalkman on Jan 18, 2010 11:27 AM EST up reply actions

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