Beyond the Box Score: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Sports blogs for fans, by fans.
Around SBN: Sean Keeley's Week 12 College Football Buffet

Victor Martinez to Red Sox for Hagadone, Masterson

Cleveland Indians' Victor Martinez watches his sixth-inning RBI off Tampa Bay Rays pitcher Joe Nelson during a baseball game Thursday May 14, 2009 in St. Petersburg, Fla. Martinez had four hits and four RBIs as Cleveland won 11-7. (AP Photo/Chris O'Meara)

More photos » by Chris O'Meara - AP

6 months ago: Cleveland Indians' Victor Martinez watches his sixth-inning RBI off Tampa Bay Rays pitcher Joe Nelson during a baseball game Thursday May 14, 2009 in St. Petersburg, Fla. Martinez had four hits and four RBIs as Cleveland won 11-7. (AP Photo/Chris O'Meara)

The Red Sox pulled the trigger on a deal today to acquire Indians C/1B/DH Victor Martinez.  Given injuries to Mike Lowell and ineffectiveness from Jason Varitek and David Ortiz, inserting Victor Martinez adds both an all-star and flexibility to an already formidable roster.

Victor Martinez is as advertised.  With a .367 wOBA at catcher, Martinez is an elite player.  He won't be able to catch everyday, but he can shift to 1B (with Youkilis moving over to third) and provide average defense there as well, and he can also fill in at DH.  With versatility combined with talent, the Red Sox certainly have a valuable asset in Martinez.  ZiPS has Martinez at a .360 wOBA going forward, worth a little more than 5 runs above average.  Depending on who comes out of the lineup (the ineffective Ortiz, worth -7 bRAA so far), the injured Lowell (roughly average so far, but unreliable), or the aging Varitek (.349 wOBA so far but only projected for .322 going forward), Martinez could add anywhere from .5-1.5 wins down the stretch.  Martinez will also be around next year, at a relatively cheap 7 million dollars, so this move should also help the Red Sox next year and possibly further if they sign Martinez to another contract, and they managed to avoid dealing either Clay Buchholz, Daniel Bard, or Michael Bowden

Star-divide

The return for the Cleveland Indians comes in the form of three young pitchers: Nick Hagadone, Justin Masterson, and Bryan Price.  Here's what Sickels has to say about Hagadone and Price, the two minor leaguers involved.

8) Nick Hagadone, LHP, Grade B-: Can’t rank higher than B- until we see how he comes back from Tommy John. Excellent stuff when healthy.

12) Bryan Price, RHP, Grade B-: High upside arm, though he might advance more slowly if used as a starter than as a reliever.

Justin Masterson, a 24 year old righthander, is currently in his second season (first full) in the Major Leagues.  After an ok 2008 that doesn't look nearly as good to the advanced metrics, (6.78 tRA, 4.69 FIP), Masterson has picked it up in 2009.  Despite a 1-run lower ERA, Masterson is clearly pitching better.  His tRA is down nearly 3 full runs to 3.92, and his FIP is down to 3.75.  Almost everything we look for in an improving pitcher is there: higher strikeouts, lower walks, lower HRs, fewer balls.  His swinging strikes have fallen from 9.8% to 8.4%, but still, his other improvements outweight the one low point for this year.  Masterson likely will jump into the Cleveland rotation.

This looks like a win-win deal for both squads, as Cleveland picks up some useful pieces for the next 6-8 years, and Boston adds a piece that could potentially put  space between them and Tampa/Texas for the Wild Card and even possibly overtake the Yankees for the division.

0 recs  |  Comment 36 comments |

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

Grammar Police: I think he should probably shi-F-t to first rather then… you know

by dogdays on Jul 31, 2009 4:33 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Best typo ever

fixed

---
http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com
http://www.rightfieldbleachers.com

by Jack Moore on Jul 31, 2009 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is it just me, or does this seem like a fairly small haul for Martinez?

Considering he’s a catcher, can hit, is cheap, and is signed for one more year?

by Dan Turkenkopf on Jul 31, 2009 5:07 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

He's not really a huge upgrade over Tek though...

But yes, this is a lot less than I was expecting Theo to give up in this “meh” deal.

@bs_uf15bosox9be:OverTheMonster-ALLERGEN WARNING:May contain PB.

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jul 31, 2009 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Side note:

Tek and Papi both have been very effective, with Tek outperforming everyone’s expectations and Papi recovering extremely well from his slump.

@bs_uf15bosox9be:OverTheMonster-ALLERGEN WARNING:May contain PB.

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jul 31, 2009 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, I personally think that Masterson is a great fit for the Indians.

But yeah, you’d think they would’ve been able to get a Buchholz/Bowden/Bard in the deal.

---
http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com
http://www.rightfieldbleachers.com

by Jack Moore on Jul 31, 2009 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Funny thing here is that Masterson's really a decent swing guy, at best.

Hagadone was a good/great prospect until he got hurt, IIIRC, and Price has been average-ish so far.

@bs_uf15bosox9be:OverTheMonster-ALLERGEN WARNING:May contain PB.

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jul 31, 2009 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think Masterson could be a back-end guy.

And team-controlled, anybody that can start is extremely valuable.

---
http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com
http://www.rightfieldbleachers.com

by Jack Moore on Jul 31, 2009 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Meh.

He never seems to be able to pitch more than a few starts before the batters start figuring him out.

@bs_uf15bosox9be:OverTheMonster-ALLERGEN WARNING:May contain PB.

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jul 31, 2009 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

huge upgrade over Jeremy Sowers, who batters have figured out before he even pitches.

by BrianRose on Aug 1, 2009 12:32 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I guess.

Masterson goes on wild streaks a lot – combining that with Perez may not be a good idea. Good luck with him. And Hagadone.

@bs_uf15bosox9be:OverTheMonster-ALLERGEN WARNING:May contain PB.

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Aug 1, 2009 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Valuable, yes

But Masterson’s probably the least valuable of Boston’s cadre of young starting prospects, because he might be the least likely to stick.

by Dan Turkenkopf on Jul 31, 2009 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Masterson's worthless as a RP

His skillset (GB’s, decent K’s, below-average control) is best in the rotation. In the bullpen, especially the Sox’ bullpen, a 4.00 FIP just isn’t good enough.

by Alex Krolewski on Aug 2, 2009 1:06 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

that's how i sort of felt too

three relievers, albeit good relievers. Hagadone is starting now but already underwent TJ. He has stuff to close, but is a ways away. Price seems like a reliever posing as a starter right now, I know he was Rice’s closer. Three relievers for V Mart does seem awfully low.

godfather of futureredbirds.net

by erik on Jul 31, 2009 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

he's been in a wicked slump

I think the Tribe did well here.

by Daniel Berlyn on Jul 31, 2009 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That'd be a pretty reactionary view there.

He’s still a pretty good batter.

@bs_uf15bosox9be:OverTheMonster-ALLERGEN WARNING:May contain PB.

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jul 31, 2009 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think you flipped up/down when talking about Masterson's stats...

And, unless the Rays are going on a huge run, we’d be fighting the MFY for the division, right?

@bs_uf15bosox9be:OverTheMonster-ALLERGEN WARNING:May contain PB.

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jul 31, 2009 5:16 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Right, by put space between Tampa/Texas, I mean increase their lead.

And Masterson’s been WAY better this year.

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=2038&position=P

---
http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com
http://www.rightfieldbleachers.com

by Jack Moore on Jul 31, 2009 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I meant this:
After an ok 2008 that doesn’t look nearly as good to the advanced metrics, (6.78 tRA, 4.69 FIP), Masterson has picked it up in 2009. Despite a 1-run lower ERA, Masterson is clearly pitching better. His tRA is up nearly 3 full runs to 3.92, and his FIP is up to 3.75.

@bs_uf15bosox9be:OverTheMonster-ALLERGEN WARNING:May contain PB.

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jul 31, 2009 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think Jack's using "up" for ERA getting better

Which is opposite how it seems to be used in most places

by Dan Turkenkopf on Jul 31, 2009 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

So "up" = improving?

That’s going to screw with so many people.

@bs_uf15bosox9be:OverTheMonster-ALLERGEN WARNING:May contain PB.

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jul 31, 2009 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ah, I'll change that then.

---
http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com
http://www.rightfieldbleachers.com

by Jack Moore on Jul 31, 2009 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not meaning to be a pain, just trying to make sure the new people will understand it.

People tend to travel around SBN on trade days.

@bs_uf15bosox9be:OverTheMonster-ALLERGEN WARNING:May contain PB.

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jul 31, 2009 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, don't worry about it.

It was a poor way to put it regardless.

---
http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com
http://www.rightfieldbleachers.com

by Jack Moore on Jul 31, 2009 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

How does Theo keep making deals without having to give up Buchholz/Bowden/Bard? Is there some gentleman’s code where Epstein gets to keep his three best arms? Man I’m jealous.

by Mike Rogers on Jul 31, 2009 7:10 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

He just realized that the Indians needed to trade Victor more than the Red Sox needed to get him.

by BrianRose on Aug 1, 2009 12:37 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not to pick at nits...

But Ortiz has been a completely different hitter in the middle part of the season than he was at the beginning. His swing is back to where it used to be, (he’s no longer stalling his wrist, so his power is transferring from his lower body into his swing) albeit a bit slower, and he has hit .275/.352/.575 the past two months. That’s a bit better rate than -7 RAA.

Chances are good that Lowell will get more time off now that they can afford to give it to him from a production standpoint. Martinez will probably sub in at catcher occasionally given Varitek’s problems, and maybe DH for Ortiz against lefties. I’m not sure he’s going to cause anyone to sit consistently (unless Lowell’s hip makes that decision for everyone).

by Marc Normandin on Aug 1, 2009 12:24 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm with you on Ortiz going forward.

It’s not just that you can ignore him first month, month and a half and be happy with this season, it’s that he’s been a stud every season before this one. He should play every day against righties. I’d definitely get Lowell into the lineup against lefties, maybe at 3B with Youk DH’ing (not really sure where Lowell’s D stands these days.) I’d put Martinez at catcher as often as possible, maybe sitting him against lefties as he shows more power against righties and Varitek’s historically hit better against lefties. Against righties, I think Lowell’s health and production pretty much decides how often Martinez catches with Lowell at 3B versus Martinez at 1B, Youk and 3B, and Varitek catching.

by Sky Kalkman on Aug 1, 2009 8:55 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lowell

@bs_uf15bosox9be:OverTheMonster-ALLERGEN WARNING:May contain PB.

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Aug 1, 2009 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

is worse than Youk at 3B now, IIRC, because of his hip issues. Baserunning's worse too.

Both have been below average this year though, defensively. Lowell’s EqBRR is like -2, while Youk’s is almost 0.8.

@bs_uf15bosox9be:OverTheMonster-ALLERGEN WARNING:May contain PB.

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Aug 1, 2009 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed completely.

@bs_uf15bosox9be:OverTheMonster-ALLERGEN WARNING:May contain PB.

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Aug 1, 2009 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, Ortiz is certainly better than his season wOBA, but the public's view on him is probably less so on his recent performance

and more so on his total season performance, sort of as a way of explaining why the trade needed to be made.

Also, Ortiz strikes me as the kind of guy who would benefit from regular rest.

---
http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com
http://www.rightfieldbleachers.com

by Jack Moore on Aug 1, 2009 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, he would.

But the original plan for VMart was to literally replace Papi. Now, he’s more of a depth acquisition.

@bs_uf15bosox9be The Original Gameday

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Aug 1, 2009 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Masterson

His sinker generates a TON of groundballs. He’ll be solid, especially with some good defense behind him.

by Tommy Bennett on Aug 1, 2009 5:01 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Yes, but he has issues with LHB.

And his mechanics scare me. For those two reasons, I’d rather he be kept a reliever if he was still on the Sox.

@bs_uf15bosox9be:OverTheMonster-ALLERGEN WARNING:May contain PB.

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Aug 1, 2009 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

We use numbers and stuff.
Community Guidelines
Why be a member?
Start posting on Beyond the Box Score »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Small
PZR-based Win Values 2001-2006

Recent FanPosts

Small
Determining Batted Ball Rates using Pitch Type and Location
Small
a new xBABIP calculator
Img587561916661595
Top 15 high school MLB draft prospects
Small
The "30 parks on a budget" challenge
Sunflower_small
World Series Simulation, Game #6
Small
JT20 Dynasty League
E52205a2_small
New Look
Sth70021_small
Exploring Hit f/x, Albeit Badly
Redcap_small
Ricky Nolasco: 4 WAR or 1 WAR?

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

FanShots

Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.

Recent FanShots

Primer on BaseRuns
Cool Baseball Infographics
ESPN's Jerry Crasnick on defensive metrics
I’m also a follower, since Brian Bannister’s on our team, of sabermetric st...
Top Ten Baseball-Reference.com's Sponsorships
Primer on Linear Weights
JC Bradbury on "Hot Stove Myths"
Everyone Should Learn to Throw a Cutter
Criminals of WAR
Ten statisticians you should know about

+ New FanShot All FanShots >

BtB on Twitter

Main Feed: @BtBScore

Tommy B: @tommy_bennett
Sky: @BtB_Sky
Dan: @dturkenk
Harry: @harrypav
Jinaz: @jinazreds
Jack: @jh_moore
Erik: @Erik_Manning
Tommy R: @trancel
Justin: @justinbopp

Subscribe to BtB via Email

Enter your email address:

Delivered by FeedBurner

BtB Goes Social


Managers

Nando_small R.J. Anderson

Limes_125_small Sky Kalkman

E52205a2_small Tommy Bennett

Editors

Face_small Harry Pavlidis

Rawlings_baseball_bigger_small Dan Turkenkopf

770insig_small Jeff Zimmerman (TucsonRoyal)

Aviles_small Justin Bopp

Authors

Banny_small erik

Raysring1_small Tommy Rancel

Jinaz-reds-avatar_small JinAZ

Jmlogo_small Jack Moore

1753738656_110919ebe9_o_small vivaelpujols

1_small Graham

Baseball_small Mike Rogers

Redcap_small SFiercex4

Small Patrick Clark

Walter_album_small Walter Fulbright