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Why it Matters: Umpires, Computers, Wins, and Dollars

 

Today, I am not very happy.  I'm not happy because my team, the Milwaukee Brewers, lost a game to the Chicago Cubs, our hated rivals, on a walk-off walk.  I'm not happy, because my team lost on this pitch, ball 4 to Jake Fox.

Ballfoureh2_medium

via i261.photobucket.com

Star-divide

Why should you care, unless you're also a Brewer fan?  The Brewers did it to themselves to be facing the bases loaded situation, anyway.  Besides, that pitch isn't unquestionably a strike - it's pretty close.  The Brewers had plenty of chances in any number of other innings to score a run and make the extra inning situation moot.  Watching post-game shows and reading reactions around the media, these kinds of excuses have been given over and over again to bring attention away from the ridiculousness of this call.  Especially if you're not a baseball fan, it would be easy to dismiss my anger towards this pitch as the simple ravings of an annoyed fan.  This blog is supposed to be all about objectivity, isn't it?  Why am I even bringing this up?

This is why I'm bringing it up.

Thehumanelement_medium

via img40.imageshack.us

This is objectivity.  The cameras that PitchFX uses don't blink.  They don't get crossed up by a curveball.  They don't open up the zone on 3-0.  They don't give the outside pitch against left handed batters when they won't give the same inside pitch against right handed batters.  Does it lose the human element of the game?  Absolutely, it does.  And that's what I am asking for, here, in this space.  Objectively, this pitch is a strike. From our own Harry Pavlidis, an alleged Cub fan:

px="-0.658" pz="3.037"

The rule book plate extends to -0.71, so it caught the plate. Fox’s average zone top is 3.4 ft (std. dev of .24) so it’s quite likely the pitch was a strike that way, too.

It is possible to clearly establish a bottom and top of the strike zone.  We have the rulebook 17 inch plate.  The rules for the Major League strike zone are clear and concise.  From Rule 2.00 (definition of terms)

The STRIKE ZONE is that area over home plate the upper limit of which is a horizontal line at the midpoint between the top of the shoulders and the top of the uniform pants, and the lower level is a line at the hollow beneath the kneecap. The Strike Zone shall be determined from the batter’s stance as the batter is prepared to swing at a pitched ball.

If we feed the tops and bottoms of each player's strike zone into a database, we should quite easily be able to call balls and strikes using Pitch F/X or any other well-calibrated, accurate, position-computing system. 

Of course, all that I've typed out above is my own personal, idealistic rant about why I think computers should call balls and strikes.  Let me show something, using the aforementioned game between the Cubs and Brewers, that is presented in a language everybody, regardless of their involvement in baseball, can understand.

Money.

Those of you that have been reading Beyond the Boxscore for a while will recognize some of our figures and studies regarding the cost of a win.  Here, Sky shows the average cost for each extra win last year was roughly 2.4 million dollars.  Looking at today's Cubs/Brewers game over at FanGraphs, we can see how win probability changed with each play.  Here's the play log for this game.  The final play resulted in a -.334 win change for the Brewers.  If the pitch had been called a strike, however, the win probability after that pitch would've been .500 instead of .000.  Essentially, that call cost the Brewers half a win.  That single event cost the Brewers half a win.

The ideas of "costing wins" and "marginal wins" are certainly abstract, I will admit.  Whether or not you want to believe in win probability and wins above replacement and all these new, abstract statistics, you will certainly agree with the following statement.  Sports franchises spend money directly to win games.  With our data, we are valuing a win at 2.4 million dollars.  Then, it follows that the final call in today's Brewers/Cubs game cost the Brewers 1.2 million dollars.  It ripped 1.2 million dollars out of the pocket of the Brewers and put it in the pocket of the Cubs.  Regardless of what the "true" value of a win is, that call cost the Brewers some amount of money and rewarded the Cubs another amount.

The play we're looking at here is about as high a magnitude call as a ball and strike call can possibly be: either the game ends, or a new inning starts.  Still, even the most insignificant of calls don't deal in mere pocket change.  How about, for example, expanding the zone on 3-0.

Harry's Pitch FX work has also provided us with linear weight values for balls and strikes, based on count.

ball strike ValB ValS
0 0 0.034 -0.043
1 0 0.063 -0.050
2 0 0.110 -0.062
3 0 0.166 -0.070
0 1 0.027 -0.062
1 1 0.050 -0.067
2 1 0.103 -0.071
3 1 0.236 -0.076
0 2 0.022 -0.188
1 2 0.046 -0.210
2 2 0.098 -0.256
3 2 0.312 -0.354

Many announcers like to talk about how the umpire will open up the strike zone on 3-0 counts.  Whether or not this actually happens would require a study of 3-0 pitches, of course.  However, simply for illustration, I would like to use it as an example of how significant a seemingly unimportant call can be.  On 3-0, Harry has the run value of a strike (ValS) at -0.070.  That is, a strike costs the batting team .07 runs.  Admittedly, a pretty small value.  On conversion to wins, assuming the standard 10 runs per win, this is even smaller.  The average 3-0 strike costs the batting team .007 wins.  To convert wins to dollars, however, using Sky's figure of 2.4 million dollars, still gives the non-trivial dollar total of 16,800 dollars. The salary of a low-minor leaguer, perhaps.  Or the cost of hiring a part time menial worker in the front office.

The point is, the calls we're dealing with  and arguing about are important in the context of Major League Baseball, and there's no reason, given the technology and other resources available, that teams and players should constantly have to deal with missed calls from umpires.  Yes, the human element is gone.  Then, perhaps, we can actually worry about real Major League Baseball, a beautiful game based on a beautiful set of objective rules, played at the highest level by the most talented players in the world.

Update by Sky: Tommy Bennett has a great post up rationally evaluating the use of "fairness" to judge human vs. computer umpires.  His point is that entertainment is the main goal of baseball, not fairness.  His writing might be what people always call "the human element" but this is the first time I've seen a thorough rationalization that serves as a good argument, instead of just a throw-away line.

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Check out the 2-2 pitch (pitch #5) from Mark Lowe to J.D. Drew in the bottom of the11th today

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/index.jsp?gid=2009_07_03_seamlb_bosmlb_1&mode=gameday

It was four inches off the inside corner, but OVER the plate. That should’ve been strike 3 and ended the game, but Drew got a single the next pitch. Thankfully Pedroia grounded out and the M’s won, but this game had perhaps the worst umpiring I’ve ever seen.

by Decatur on Jul 3, 2009 10:32 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Dont forget Ball 4 to Corey Hart

That drove in the Brewers only run.

That was a close call too. I agree that it was a bad way to end a game today in Chicago. But about 90% of umpires are not going to call that high strike.

Strike zone changes from game to game from umpire to umpire. The subjectivity of it is a part of what makes the game great. Did the Brewers have a bad call work against them today? Yes. But have the Brewers won 7 games this year on fluke plays or errors, Yes?

Your point about taking care when you have opportunities makes a ton of sense. In the end, you have to earn them for it to mean anything. A hit in any one of 3 different chances during the last week of 08 knocks the Brewers out of the playoffs, but they won their games and made it in. Were they lucky, did the back into the playoffs? Yes, but they also did their job so that they earned it as well.

by backtocali on Jul 3, 2009 11:18 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

do not agree

that “the subjectivity of it is a part of what makes the game great.” Why should the subjectivity of someone who is not a competitor be a part of deciding who wins?

IBB’ing the bases loaded was about as dumb of a decision as can be made, so the brewers are in large part responsible for this loss, but the (wrong) judgement of an umpire in today’s game could have decided the pennant. That’s not acceptable.

- "I went at it and didn’t slow down, so it kind of bounced off me." -Lil' Dunc

by SleepyCA on Jul 3, 2009 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

objectively speaking

it was just one missed call. That’s all the data we have present. It is anything but fair to look back and decide that this one missed call could have cost the Brewers the penant. These things happen and it is a lame excuse for a contending team. If it could be shown that there were multiple small calls going in the favor of the Cubs, it would be different. The gripe is over one call with nothing to compare it with.

by Daniel Berlyn on Jul 3, 2009 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i was thinking more along the lines

of this call costing the cardinals the pennant, actually. We really need the brewers to step up this series, since the cubs are clearly the superior team.

- "I went at it and didn’t slow down, so it kind of bounced off me." -Lil' Dunc

by SleepyCA on Jul 3, 2009 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I've seen and heard about the Cubs almost every day. I've seen the Brewers several times.

The Brewers are the better team so far. Anything that brings the two closer to each other record-wise only benefits the Cardinals. The Cubs offense is awful and they aren’t particularly close to break out of their slump. Any regression will probably be at least cancelled out by the pitching regressing.

by Daniel Berlyn on Jul 3, 2009 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Avatar bet?

We expected the Cubs offense to be much better than this coming into the season. Even with poor production so far, that still has to matter, right?

by Sky Kalkman on Jul 4, 2009 7:05 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes

Bradely, Fontenot, Soto and Soriano are all severly underporming and Ramirez has been injured. There is no way that the Cubs continue to hit like this. Dear Stl., please make up some ground.

Derosa.

by vivaelpujols on Jul 4, 2009 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

actually, it's interesting in that

that IBB only affected WE by about 3%. I would have expected it to be much higher, since the game ends on a hit or a walk or a HBP or a WP etc, instead of just on a hit or a WP. OBP is usually about 25% higher than BA, so I’d have thought that WE would go down on the order of (OBP-BA) % following the walk. 5-6 percent, at least.

- "I went at it and didn’t slow down, so it kind of bounced off me." -Lil' Dunc

by SleepyCA on Jul 3, 2009 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Completely missing the point.

The context of the play is meaningless. Blown calls are unacceptable and unnecessary.

---
http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com
http://www.rightfieldbleachers.com

by Jack Moore on Jul 3, 2009 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Context of the play is not meaningless.

You wouldn’t be complaining at all if it were the first pitch in bottom of the seventh inning.

by Daniel Berlyn on Jul 3, 2009 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No, probably not.

There’s subjectivity on my part. Of course there is. I’m a fan. Whether or not I get all riled up over this, context of the play matters.

The bigger point , in the grand picture of major league baseball, is why should we accept the first pitch in the bottom of the seventh inning being called incorrectly when we don’t have to.

---
http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com
http://www.rightfieldbleachers.com

by Jack Moore on Jul 3, 2009 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd say there's a good case to be made that the plays on the base paths account for more blown call "value"

than pitch-calling. Even so, there are far bigger problems effecting baseball on a bigger scale. I’m talking about cheating, lying, and scandal in America and in the islands. This is what they’re working on right now. After that, they would have to break through the unions… and I don’t think they want to go through that. Then there’s the issue of the Elias Sports rankings. I’d rather suffer a few honest mistakes than a lot of deliberate dishonesty. And, for what it’s worth, these guys go through a lot of scrutiny to get it right because they always have technology pointing out their mistakes. Whatever technology would be implemented to decide the strikezone, it would probably be faulty at first, liable to malfunction if not impractical, and then how do you adjust for player height? I can’t really imagine this with definition.

by Daniel Berlyn on Jul 3, 2009 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Right.

It’s human nature to be swayed by emotional arguments (walk-off walk) and these are the best argument to use initially to convince others of your position. But then you should have the data on all the unemotional/not as dramatic examples. Which you have, in this case, because there are a lot of ball/strike calls missed. They all matter to a certain extent, and some are bound to matter a whole lot.

by Sky Kalkman on Jul 4, 2009 7:07 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

depends

if it was called a strike, and the batter then had to protect the plate and swing and get himself out on a pitcher’s pitch after fouling off a good pitch, then yes, that umpires bad call on the first pitch in the bottom of an inning made a big difference in the outcome of the game. If it was called a ball and then he drilled the 2-1 fastball (that would have been a 1-2 curve, if the umpire didn’t blow the first-pitch strike call) then it also unfairly influences the game.

- "I went at it and didn’t slow down, so it kind of bounced off me." -Lil' Dunc

by SleepyCA on Jul 3, 2009 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Did you actually read this article?

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Jul 5, 2009 3:12 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was very surprised when the call was made a ball

it wasn’t perfectly clear, but I don’t know how it compares to the other pitches called for both sides in the entirety of the game.

That said, the Brewers did have a good number of opportunities to avoid this. This is the sequence of events.

-Theriot flares one into right, in and out of Counsell’s glove.
-Wild pitch
-Sac fly
-They intentionally walk the guy hitting under .200 from the left side
-They intentionally walk the struggling righty hitter. Righty hitters hit about a buck fifty against DiFelice, and I imagine most of the ones making up that average are hitting over .250 against righties(Soto is not.)

That loaded the bases. At this point, any excuse on a full count is just that. An excuse. Every team has calls that cost them a game, and those outs often account for more than the value of one strike. This concept has about as much a chance as a snowflake in the Sahara.

by Daniel Berlyn on Jul 3, 2009 11:34 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

It’s not debatable that the current ball-strike system in place now works extremely well. 99% of the time it works every time, as Brian Fantana would say. Of course you notice the 1% of the time it doesn’t work because it sticks out so much.

If you were to make a list of all of the factors that helped an event go in favor of one team or another, umpires would probably end up somewhere around the middle of the list.

Further, let’s say we do get a mechanized ball-strike system in place. How much will it cost, how much more accurate will it be, and how long until we start seeing consistently reliable results? Is it really worth it? If someone smarter than I wants to throw out some numbers, I’d bet that it’d have to be a really cheap system (in terms of cost) for it to be worth the investment.

On another note, how would such a change ever get past the umpires union? Is there anyone you can think of who would have the balls to even suggest this change to Major League Baseball?

Lots of questions to be answered. I understand the frustration over the inconsistent strike zones, but it’s just a part of baseball now and I think it’s better to just live with it.

by Crashburn Alley on Jul 4, 2009 12:25 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm not sure how to quantify it

But I think most of us would agree there’s at least one call in every game that is wrong. If the robots fix that one call in each game, that’s nearly 2,500 calls a season.

There’s also some public/fan approval to be won by getting away from subjective strikes. How often do you hear announcers reference a veteran pitch having “earned” the outside strike over the course of their career? How fair is that, really? It’s tradition though, and I suppose some purists will take offense to it, just like they did with the DH and wild card, but they keep coming back.

I can’t speak on the cost or any of the other subjects, but I would certainly be behind robot strikecallers and allowing the home plate umpire to ask for things like check-swings and make calls at the plate. Just give him a buzzer as to when to call a ball or strike and be done with it.

by R.J. Anderson on Jul 4, 2009 1:14 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If the robots fix that one call in each game, that’s nearly 2,500 calls a season.

That’s a very big if, however.

allowing the home plate umpire to ask for things

And then you’ll just have teams whining about umpires not asking at the correct times, or asking when they shouldn’t have asked.

In the end, I think you’re just trading one small set of problems for an equally small, but slightly different set of problems. And you’re probably spending a lot more money.

by Crashburn Alley on Jul 4, 2009 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What would that work out to?

I’ve found in the past that the value of a missed pitch is 0.133 runs.

So if we’re talking 2,500 misses, that’s 332 runs, or about 33 wins across the entire league. That means almost $80 million dollars a year being shuffled around.

That definitely sounds like a lot of money – $2.7 million per team. But some of that money is coming in, and some is going out.

Barring any bias against a team, the calls are likely going to be around 50/50 per team, which means over a long enough time, the money should average out.

Of course, as Jack pointed out, the value of any given “miss” can be astronomically higher, which means there’s likely to be extreme differences in value to teams over the short-term.

How frequently do we expect this type of “miss” to occur? Average run value is the wrong approach for this kind of analysis since it assumes all misses are created equal. Win value is the right way to go (although you’ll need to figure out win expectancy per count which could be tough).

Many (most?) of the “misses” aren’t going to cost anyone anything since they’ll come when the game is out of reach, or just not have much effect on the win expectancy. This is almost certainly the worst possible case for a missed call, and it was worth $1.2 million to each team.

My guess without doing any more data analysis or number-crunching is that it’s probably not going to be cost effective to set up an automated system if it averages more than $100,000K per stadium per season to run. The average change in value to a team over a season probably isn’t that big – despite a few high profile instances like this.

If you could selectively install whatever system we’re talking about in the stadium where the “problem” occurred, then it would be worth it, but you don’t know where that’s going to be. You have to install in all stadiums where it’s not going to be as valuable most of the time.

by Dan Turkenkopf on Jul 4, 2009 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I completely understand the sentiment here.

It would be an awfully huge undertaking and would likely anger a lot of people. I think that the attitude that “it’s only a little bit broken, let’s not worry about it” has to be changed. The robot strike callers are certainly not coming soon, but I think it’s a technological advancement that baseball can’t ignore forever. As the consumers, those of us who want change have to make ourselves heard.

---
http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com
http://www.rightfieldbleachers.com

by Jack Moore on Jul 4, 2009 1:34 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

As of May 2008

they were in the 90%+ range. They get two inches of stretch, so their plate is 21 inches wide.

Also, and this is very important, the pitchfx data that is used to rate the umpires (questec is gone, both were used in 2008 though) goes thru add’l post-processing. What we see in gameday, and in the downloaded files, may not match what is truly accurate and used for the umpire reviews.

MLBAM has stressed this many a time, the zones are for entertainment purposes. The outlines are fuzzy for a reason. But they do their absolute best to be accurate with the information.

by Harry Pavlidis on Jul 4, 2009 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If you can fix a small problem even while leaving larger problems, do it.

Now, cost and implementation are surely issues worth discussing.

by Sky Kalkman on Jul 4, 2009 7:09 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Make balls/strikes like instant replay

The umps would still call balls and strikes. However, during every at bat, the batter and catcher would be allowed to make one appeal each. During the appeal, the umpire would refer to a pitch-fx like application on a PDA to determine whether the pitch was a strike or not. This would reduce the number of blown calls without angering the umpires union too much (hopefully). Also it wouldn’t slow the game down, since the appeal would be called for and checked very quickly.

by redsox9322 on Jul 4, 2009 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd settle for one challenge a GAME

or maybe “challenge as much as you want, until you get one wrong”.

- "I went at it and didn’t slow down, so it kind of bounced off me." -Lil' Dunc

by SleepyCA on Jul 4, 2009 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah...

there would have to be a limit or penalty on reckless appeals.

by Daniel Berlyn on Jul 4, 2009 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's actually more like 83% and 17% respectively.

Umpires blow about one pitch in six, which is pretty horrifyingly bad.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Jul 5, 2009 3:14 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just reposting this from the FanShot

This is a composite screenshot of Kendall catching the “ball” on the left and Fox standing before going into his crouch on the right:

It was a great selection of awesome.

by battlekow on Jul 4, 2009 2:36 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

this is silly

From the original post, we see that the rulebook decision is as follows:

The Strike Zone shall be determined from the batter’s stance as the batter is prepared to swing at a pitched ball.

So why are we looking at this composite?

I also don’t understand why we’re using PitchF/X’s strike zone as the end all, be all. It’s an estimated zone entered by part-time stringers, nothing more.

And to the original poster, did you see how much Jason Kendall moved to frame that ball? It was a high pitch by any zone called today in the major leagues. (Let’s be clear, you’re arguing for more precision, not accuracy, because Gameday’s strike zone is not accurate.)

by SeanD on Jul 4, 2009 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

For the record...

I’m 90% in favor of non-umpire strikes zones and 100% in favor of not whining about calls whenever possible. Reason? See the NBA. It becomes the story instead of the baseball being the story.

by Sky Kalkman on Jul 4, 2009 7:10 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I agree with the latter point thoroughly.

It can really put a bad taste in good writing when people dwell on selected incorrect calls, especially when it’s a pitch call, and even more than that when it’s one call.

by Daniel Berlyn on Jul 4, 2009 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

To all the people who enjoy the "human element" of the mistakes...

Have we optimized the number of mistakes? Do we want a few more wrong calls? A few less? Why just settle for the status quo when we could really make the game perfect.

Also, a computer-called strike zone could be programmed to mimic mistakes or changing strike zones. Just change a few parameters each game to alter the shape of the zone a bit and choose what percentage of blown calls you’d like. Done.

by Sky Kalkman on Jul 4, 2009 7:12 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

when you put it like that

it doesn’t sound quite as romantic, does it?

- "I went at it and didn’t slow down, so it kind of bounced off me." -Lil' Dunc

by SleepyCA on Jul 4, 2009 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, I think it's important to differentiate between process and outcomes

It’s not that I would like more wrong calls or fewer wrong calls. It’s that I’m dedicated to a process by which balls and strikes are called by a human umpire. However many mistakes such a process may generate is the acceptable number because the process itself is the appropriate one. I’m not sure I’m fully prepared to articulate my justification for such a process at the moment, but it seems somewhat specious to ask what the “right” number of wrong calls is.

Certainly, one goal of a system to adjudicate balls and strikes is accuracy, but there very well may be other goals as well. I’m working myself up to an argument that there are in fact other goals to such a system.

by Tommy Bennett on Jul 4, 2009 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I look forward to that.

Another of those West Wing-style “I don’t accept the premise of your question” responses.

by Sky Kalkman on Jul 4, 2009 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I enjoy the human element.

When I am watching a game, and there is a bad call it pisses me off. The Cardinals lost a game a couple of weeks ago, partially because the umpire called a pitch to Rasmus, that was clearly a ball, a strike. Instead of getting pissed off at the players for playing a bad game overall, I was angry at the umpire and it allowed me to vent. In hindsight, the bad call made me feel much better about the Cardinals losing because I could blame it on the umps.

I am normally an objective and mathematical person when it comes to analyzing baseball, so maybe someone could convince me that this is a logical falacy.

Derosa.

by vivaelpujols on Jul 4, 2009 10:26 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

On the other side of that page

Bobby Howry missed the corner by a hair against Rasmus the other night, and it just barely nipped the corner according to ESPN’s K-Zone. Rasmus then deposited the pitch into the right-center bleachers, and the game was over. It was a borderline call that could have gone either way, really, and yet there was a call against the Cardinals that you think cost them a game a couple weeks ago. So really, the argument that human umpires are costing teams millions is silly.

by Daniel Berlyn on Jul 4, 2009 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not quite even

But not that far on average.

This isn’t by any means definitive, but it’s one of the few places I’ve seen anyone look at the relationship between “misses” and other factors.

by Dan Turkenkopf on Jul 4, 2009 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The difference is very hard to quantify

one might say insignificant. Even then, a season is not enough data. Not enough to fairly determine how much whatever is costing who what, or something.

by Daniel Berlyn on Jul 4, 2009 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's hard to quantify for you and me, but these geniuses like Dan and Harry can handle it no problem.

And you can pick whatever time period you want. This week. The season. This decade. Some are more meaningful than others.

by Sky Kalkman on Jul 4, 2009 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The balance of power

would swing incredibly far to the hitter’s side if an electronic strike zone was used, I believe. Pitchers are not able to control their pitches with 100% accuracy. While the example above is a very dramatic one showing a pitcher getting screwed by a call, I would guess that pitchers benefit more from the “human element” (really, the subjectivity of a strike) than hitters do. Pitches just off edges of the plate are called for strikes if they are “good pitches” If you locked in a computerized zone, hitters would be able to practice to that zone in BP and learn the zone so well as to be much less likely to chase out of zone pitches (except those hitters named Francouer).

Walks would go up league wide and power would increase as well, since pitchers would be forced to work closer to the middle of the zone to avoid missing. Guys with good plate discipline like Youkilis, Pujols, and others would absolutely rake in such an environment. There is nowhere in the zone that such hitters are unable to cover. Pitchers would still beat them as they do now, with deception and changes in timing but working the edges the way guys like Maddux and Glavine did would be a far more risky strategy.

by Slugger O'Toole on Jul 4, 2009 11:42 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Gameday screen caps can be misleading- I think.

Harry said:

Also, and this is very important, the pitchfx data that is used to rate the umpires (questec is gone, both were used in 2008 though) goes thru add’l post-processing. What we see in gameday, and in the downloaded files, may not match what is truly accurate and used for the umpire reviews.

MLBAM has stressed this many a time, the zones are for entertainment purposes. The outlines are fuzzy for a reason. But they do their absolute best to be accurate with the information.

When I look at gameday, there are two things that make it difficult for me to believe what I see is precise enough for me to evaluate close calls by umpires. First, the scale is off- a regulation ball is a hair under three inches in diameter and the plate is 17 inches wide. If I assume Gameday’s plate is 17in, the the ball displayed is 5+ inches in diameter. Where is the actual ball? In the center of the exaggerated ball? Is it more of a display of relative location? The second thing is the angle. It’s hard to line up the display to be horizontally and vertically in the position of the umpire, and when it is- the strike zone markers are screwed.

I do agree that it would be preferable to have an automated ball and strike system. Bad calls that change the outcomes are not the kind of human element I’d miss in the game. I don’t think Gameday is intended to be accurate enough to make the argument for or against the current system, or to use to show how unfair a particular close call was to a player and or team.

"Baseball is like church- many attend, few understand." ~ Leo Durocher

by The Lip on Jul 4, 2009 1:46 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs


The STRIKE ZONE is that area over home plate the upper limit of which is a horizontal line at the midpoint between the top of the shoulders and the top of the uniform pants, and the lower level is a line at the hollow beneath the kneecap. The Strike Zone shall be determined from the batter’s stance as the batter is prepared to swing at a pitched ball.

Looks above the midpoint from here. Even the pitch f/x data showed it higher than any of the other pitches that AB. It was inside the estimated PFX K-zone graphic on gameday, which is said to be an estimate.

Decrease runs scored?
Maybe.

Decrease winning? Never seen that proven.
-SFTU

by hazel on Jul 4, 2009 4:23 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

completely agree

This screen grab is more telling than Gameday because everything is to scale.

by SeanD on Jul 4, 2009 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're ignoring paralax.

Because of where the camera is positioned, you cannot accurately discern where the pitch is located at.

by cwyers on Jul 4, 2009 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The camera is positioned above the field. Looking down on something from above should make it appear lower than it is in reality, no? So if this view makes it look like a ball, the reality is the ball is actually higher than it appears, and thus…still a ball.

by Missing Barry on Jul 8, 2009 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It was ball four.

End of story.

(good time to lock comments)

Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.

by 306008 on Jul 4, 2009 8:31 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

...pretty sure he was joking

Then again, that same guy left a really weird comment on one of my posts at Driveline.

Derosa.

by vivaelpujols on Jul 4, 2009 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The call did not cost either team any money

For the record, I’m all in favor of balls and strikes being called by some manner other than a human umpire. It seems like the technology is now available.

But I do disagree with the statement that the called ball “ripped 1.2 million dollars out of the pocket of the Brewers and put it in the pocket of the Cubs.” That’s not at all what happened (unless the teams had a 1.2 million dollar bet on the game, in which case the umpire’s call is NOT the story.)

What the call did is, potentially, cost the Brewers a win and gave the win to the Cubs. But we don’t know for sure it did that since if the pitch had been called a strike, the Cubs still might have won the game.

Assuming the call did give the Cubs a win they would not have otherwise had, then it does alter the amount spent per win for each team. Also, if the Brewers miss the playoffs by one win, then it can be argued that the call cost the Brewers whatever revenues the post season would have brought them. But if the Brewers miss the playoffs by one game, it is unlikely that this is the only event in the season that cost them a win, so….

by RichBeckman on Jul 5, 2009 12:18 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

It doesn't garauntee a win, no

But it would have greatly improved the chances of the Brewer’s winning. After that pitch, the Cubs had a 100% chance of winning (duh). But if that pitch was called a strike and they had gone to the top of the 11th, the Cubs would only have about a 60% chance of winning (WAG). So we can say that the missed call “cost” the Brewers about a half a win, in the abstract sense. As Jack showed in the OP, that half win ends up costing a lot over a full season.

Derosa.

by vivaelpujols on Jul 5, 2009 3:15 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

My interpretation of the dollar figures.

One, it’s a translation of scale. One win, on average, costs, $2.4M, so half a win would take $1.2M, on average. Just adds some perspective on what else could produce half a win other than a ball/strike call.

Two, playoff revenue is big, but so is revenue from winning more games. Fans like to see better teams and fans like to see teams in pennant races. So an extra win probably has expected revenue gains there.

I agree no money was changing hands right then, but using the money angle does have its uses. We should be clear how we’re using the figure, though, I agree.

by Sky Kalkman on Jul 5, 2009 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd like to see computer umpires implemented

Not only because of the inconsistencies but because of favoritism. You can’t tell me that no umpire has ever leaned one way or another because they prefer a certain team. They probably try to be as objective as possible, but ultimately these are people who love the game (they must, they became umps after all), and so they have to have certain teams they hate, and certain teams they love. And you can’t tell me that that doesn’t influence their calls, whether consciously or subconsciously.

As for the supposed “human element”, what about getting the right call? And what about the stats? Should we put an asterisk next to EVERY player’s name because they were called out on what was clearly a ball, and they MIGHT have hit a homer on the next pitch? Aaron would have 756 homers if an umpire hadn’t realized he was out of the batter’s box on one; how many players have gotten away with that? Unless you get a consistent system which eliminates human error, all stats could be considered pointless.

by quincy0191 on Jul 6, 2009 2:56 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Well, I'm persuaded.

Computer umps are clearly not better than real umps.

---
http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com
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by Jack Moore on Jul 7, 2009 1:30 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It would be kinda boring of the strike zone was automated

It would definitely be good for baseball, but… just saying.

Derosa.

by vivaelpujols on Jul 8, 2009 5:20 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Well, anybody who's ever played or watched baseball knows it's a boring game.

Let’s just finish the job, eh?

---
http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com
http://www.rightfieldbleachers.com

by Jack Moore on Jul 8, 2009 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Look at the first pitch

If you are going to complain about pitch 9, you really have to accept that pitch 1 was called a strike when it was a ball. This means (and we don’t know for sure) that Fox should have had a walk on 4 pitches.

by Rudy J on Jul 8, 2009 5:41 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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