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A Take on the Matt Holliday Trade

I predict three stars will be between this statement and my analysis

Star-divide

This being the internet, everyone and their mother wants the chance to give their two cents on everything, and I for one am not different. Looking around the blogosphere it seems that the general reaction is positive on the side of A's and negative from Cardinals' fans.

Well the first thing I want to look at it Matt Holliday as an upgrade for the Cardinals. The Cardinals left field this year has been an absolute mess. The birds have used 8 different players at the position (that's as many as they have had different starting pitchers this year.) Most of the playing time has been allocated to the recently departed Chris Duncan. Duncan was unable to replicate his past power potential, or batting average he displayed in the past. Add in his usual poor defense and wish him luck at producing at an above replacement level in Boston, something he was not able to do in St. Louis. Add in the Ankiels, the Stavinohas of the world and for the year the Cardinals have gotten a (approximately) .301 wOBA and an UZR of -7.3 out of the position, miserable by any standard short of the Cleveland Spiders.

Matt Holliday brings a lot of remedy to the situation. While his hitting has dropped off from the Colorado days, he has looked pretty good after a miserable April. Even without adjusting for that he is bringing a .368 wOBA and 125 OPS+ to St. Louis which would make him the 2nd best hitter on the Cardinals. Obviously Holliday has some upside over those numbers because of how badly he played the first month plus going from the AL to the NL I think projecting him to put up a .385 wOBA the rest of the way seems pretty reasonable. Add in the career +7.1 UZR/150 and you are looking at a 2.5-3 win bump for Cardinals going forward in a division where they lead by 1.5 games and are behind a couple teams if they were looking for the Wild Card. Holliday makes the Cardinals a good bet to make the playoffs.

There are also additional benefits that Holliday brings to the Cardinals, albeit less tangible ones. First there are the two potential draft picks for a Type A free agent should Holliday leave at the end of the season. Victor Wang at hardball times has been getting a lot of good blog press for predicting the value of these two draft picks at about 5 million dollars but I really don't like to think of it in those terms.

There is also a pretty good chance Holliday doesn't test the free agent market this year and accepts arbitration to reestablish his super-star value. Holliday probably ends the years as a 6+ WAR player which using the standard 4.5 million dollars per win formula would put his "value" at 27 million dollars a year. Let's get something straight, Matt Holliday will not make 27 million dollars a year salary as a free agent. He would not make that much in this economy, he would not make this much in a normal economy, he wouldn't make this much using whatever reasonable discount rate you use with net present value. I personally think Holliday was nuts to turn down the 20.5 million a year the Rockies offered because I don't think he will (or would have) get that anywhere else, I might be wrong, Boras and company obviously thought so, but especially now I think Holliday would get 17 million a year or so on the free agent market long term. So back to the reasonable chance of Holliday signing a one year deal or accepting arbitration (barring a Beltran-like playoff run) it looks like a good chance the Cardinals of getting a second year of Holliday at less then market value. Add in the possible positive spill-over effects of Holliday in the line-up adding another half a win or so Holliday's value to the Cardinals has a good chance of being significantly higher then just his straight production alone this year.

If you are still reading, I admire your attention span

Now on to the booty of the trade. Brett Wallace was a first rounder for the Cardinals last year out of ASU. He raked after signing last year and vaulted him to being the top prospect in the St. Louis system after the graduated Colby Rasmus. Wallace has come back down to earth this year while still holding his own up as high as triple a ball. Wallace is a good prospect but not without questions. First off is where does his bat really lie? He really hasn't produced great this year and his career minor league OPS is .856 which is good for 1st baseman and very good for a 3rd baseman, but his current AAA line is poor for a 1st baseman and a little above average for a 3rd baseman. At 22 he certainly has time to get even better though, so reading too much into his batting is probably going to lead to underselling his future bat.

Next of course is whether or not he will be able to handle 3rd base long term. There is no way to get around it, Wallace is big, listed at 6-2 235 he is going to be pressed stay at the hot corner (Thome was listed at 6'4" 220 and only lasted two full years at the position) and listed height and weight tends to have players as taller then they actually are and slimmer then they actually are. There are some that questioned whether Wallace would have been a 1st baseman in college were it not for first rounder Ike Davis also being on the team. Bigger guys have been able to handle the position in the past but I for one put him at 50/50 for playing more then a full big league season at 3rd and the chances of him playing it for the majority of his career at 10% or so. As a 3rd baseman he would be a much better prospect.

Next is something that I have not seen questioned in the media but is a concern for me. I have an acquaintance that actually plays for ASU and he told me stories that lead me to question Wallace's maturity. He told me that at least on a couple occasions Wallace and a teammate would come to practice drunk and the coached called him out for not working hard enough. The only thing I could find on his make-up was a blurb on Baseball America saying that he was great to interview so my concerns could be completely unfounded college kid stuff. 

So after three paragraphs that probably show that I am not super high on Wallace I still want to reiterate that he is a great prospect, but these are the reasons I don't buy the Cardinal fan's reaction that giving up Wallace alone was too much for Holliday let alone other players.

The other two players I don't know much about other then other people's reports and their stat lines and I have never seen either of them play that I recall. Shane Peterson is out of Long Beach State. He has shown good plate patience but little power in his couple years in pro ball. He also is showing less power, batting average, and plate discipline every time he ascends a level in the system. Clayton Mortensen is a groundball pitcher with decent strikeouts, a little high of walks and a little too hittable while in the minors but is never the less is pretty much major league ready and has some upside as a back of the rotation starter.

So after all of this I have concluded that I like this trade for the Cardinals, I don't think that they overpaid to get what is probably the best positional player on the market. I think he is what they need to make sure they stay atop the Central. That being said I also like the trade for the A's. Those 3 wins above replacement weren't going to do them any good this year, they probably weren't going to get the value of Brett Wallace with compensation picks, they have some interesting corner outfielders who they can now take a better look at, and they got to save some cash. And of course there is always the chance that St. Louis gets creamed on this deal if Wallace turns out to be Prince Fielder or Aramis Ramirez, and Mortensen could end up being a Dallas Braden, and even Peterson could up being something more then 4th outfielder.

I guess the best way to put this is that I that I like this trade from the Cardinals standpoint, and I don't think there is anything to be mad about from the Oakland side of things.

0 recs  |  Comment 20 comments

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I personally think Holliday was nuts to turn down the 20.5 million a year the Rockies offered because I don’t think he will (or would have) get that anywhere else

Perhaps so. However, at the time, it wasn’t a bad move on his part simply because I don’t think anyone expected him to get traded out of the Coors Field environment. As soon as they moved him to Oakland you knew his value was going to take a hit simply because of the stadium history up there in regards to elite all-around hitters. The one thing that makes Holliday especially enticing to teams is the fact that he’s a top-notch all-around hitter and performer. He has great power, great ability to hit to all fields, very good speed, and is arguably the top all-around defensive left fielder in the game. Most guys would love to pay $17.5-$20.5 million for a guy like that. Is he going to get that on the open market? Maybe, maybe not. That remains to be seen.

I’ll tell you this much, a team like the Yankees is going to offer him ridiculous money if he hits the open market this offseason. Johnny Damon ($13 million), Hideki Matsui ($13), Xavier Nady ($6.55), Jose Molina ($2), and Eric Hinske ($1.5) all come off the books next year. The first three have all seen time in LF this season. That’s $32.55 million saved in just those three players alone. That’s money they can use on Holliday. That’s a position that they truly do need to shore up, though. A guy like Nick Swisher cannot play out there. And playing a guy like Melky Cabrera there isn’t smart, either. Posada-Teixeira-Cano-Jeter-Rodriguez-Holliday-Cabrera/Gardner-Swisher is actually not a bad nine man defense to throw out there. In fact, it’d be a lot better served if they just kept Swisher as the DH and rotated Cabrera in as the full-time RF. I dislike the Yankees but even I cannot go against what the signing of Holliday could do for that team.

by FlyByKnight on Jul 25, 2009 5:08 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I don't think the Yankees should sign any stars this offseason

Let Swisher, Gardner and Cabrera man the outfield and re-sign Hinske and add another right-handed bench player. Use the DH to give the older players rest and improve the defense with their younger players.

by Daniel Berlyn on Jul 25, 2009 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Holliday would improve their defense

F%#& Billy Beane. Actually... I kinda like Holliday

by vivaelpujols on Jul 25, 2009 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

and be the "right hander off the bench"

my guess is that he would start though

Carlos Guillen, the Latino Punto

by The_Fan on Jul 26, 2009 12:36 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pushes Swisher to the bench?

@bs_uf15bosox9be:OverTheMonster-ALLERGEN WARNING:May contain PB.

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jul 26, 2009 2:08 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

probably

but it depends on how he does in st. louis. And cant swisher play center and move gardiner to the bench

Carlos Guillen, the Latino Punto

by The_Fan on Jul 26, 2009 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not to be "that guy"

But can you capitalize and use punctuation please?

F%#& Billy Beane. Actually... I kinda like Holliday

by vivaelpujols on Jul 26, 2009 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

ok

Thanks for the heads up. Moving from SSS where a few people have good grammer to here is kind of hard. I’ll keep it in mind though.

Carlos Guillen, the Latino Punto

by The_Fan on Jul 26, 2009 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

"that guy" needs to get less of a bad rep.

@bs_uf15bosox9be:OverTheMonster-ALLERGEN WARNING:May contain PB.

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jul 26, 2009 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Swish can't be a full time CF

Not if you want to improve the defense.

by Dan Turkenkopf on Jul 26, 2009 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, didn't Griffey push him out last season in Chicago?

@bs_uf15bosox9be:OverTheMonster-ALLERGEN WARNING:May contain PB.

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jul 26, 2009 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

ozzie did.

non griffey. but youre right, swish cant do center all year

by someguy132 on Jul 26, 2009 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I meant his being there pushed Swisher to 1B.

Because they felt Griffey would be better defensively.

@bs_uf15bosox9be:OverTheMonster-ALLERGEN WARNING:May contain PB.

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Jul 26, 2009 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Swisher is a horrible defensive outfielder. He’s -10 in TZ for his career and has a -4.4 UZR/150 this year in the outfield. He used to be, at least, decent. Now, he’s not. He has no defensive position at all and the Yankees need to stick him in the DH spot for the remainder of his time there. Maybe give him a few spot starts at first base when Teixeira needs a day off his feet. This is why Holliday is a need for the Yankees in the offseason. Holliday-Gardner-Cabrera is a very efficient and very good defensive outfield.

by FlyByKnight on Jul 27, 2009 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

UZR has traditionaly found Swisher to be a solid corner outfielder.

Not sure I’d weight one year at -5 runs all that much, although I haven’t looked at TotalZone much for him.

by Sky Kalkman on Jul 27, 2009 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Swisher’s RZR is at .939, which is third best in the American League among RFs. However, he has only gotten to 29 balls OOZ. Guys like Drew and Dye have gotten to more than him. That’s not to basically say that they’re better than him in the field but it does show the limited range that Swisher possesses out there. His arm isn’t that good, either. Since HardBall Times starting tallying the Outfield Arms portion of their player pages, Swisher has been -3.7 in terms of Runs Saved Per 200 Opportunities. That’s really not good. Swisher should be stuck at DH. Is he a good hitter? That’s debatable. Is he a good fielder? Not really. And, for that alone, he should be stuck at DH.

by FlyByKnight on Jul 27, 2009 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Meant to say “Swisher has been -3.7 in terms of Runs Saved Per 200 Opportunities in RF”.

by FlyByKnight on Jul 27, 2009 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

A corner outfielder needs to be somewhere between -7.5 and -12.5 runs worse than average to be as valuable as a DH with the same offensive skill set

(I think it’s -10 runs, but I’m drawing a blank right now.) So putting Swisher at DH is a bit of a waste, as then you can’t sign a guy like Burrell or Dunn for pretty cheap and stick them at DH. You’d have to go sign someone who hits just as well but can also play right field at a league average rate, which is going to be more costly. Swisher in right + Burrell-like DH + monetary savings > Swisher at DH + good-fielding Burrell guy.

by Sky Kalkman on Jul 28, 2009 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

I can’t see the Yankees not signing a star player with the amount of money they have coming off the books. Theirs no other big prospect that will be available to them (Except I guess Bay or Lackey, but I expect both to get resigned). Unless they want to make a play for like Roy Halladay next trade deadline, I don’t see them not signing Holliday, especially if they don’t win the WS.

Man, with this outfield, need to get rid of that Rasmus guy. :)

by Taskmaster on Jul 26, 2009 12:36 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The makeup concerns are, IMHO, not worth anything.

Michael Phelps smokes weed and drives drunk, that doesn’t make him any less a moneymaker in that pool. Players get labeled for antics all the time, but the fact is these behaviors are extremely common and rarely have pronounced effects on performance. If it is true that Wallace isn’t giving it his all, god help the cardinals if he ever does, because he’s ranked as one of the best bats in the minors already, and I don’t know of an authoritative source that doesn’t think this trade was at least a $10M win for the A’s.

Mortensen was the highest-ranked Cardinals starter, so taking the two together the A’s got the Cards best pitcher and best position player, plus a C-level OF prospect, for two months of Matt Holliday. It’s likely the Cards will end up with New York or Boston’s first round pick next draft, but both of those teams are virtual playoff locks and world series contenders, yielding extremely late first round picks.

There is talk of a Cards re-sign or arbitration being accepted, but consider this: CC Sabathia, AJ Burnett, Manny Ramirez, and Mark Teixera all got their long-term, big money deals in the midst of the recession, and this offseason both Boston and NY will be looking for a LF. If it comes down to arbitration or free-agency, Matt Holliday is gone. The Cards do have a shot at signing him before that point, and they’ve negotiated with Boras before, but the thought of Boston and NY in a bidding war is probably too tempting for Holliday and Boras. 17M would be just over the salary AJ Burnett is getting, and Holliday has been worth more than CC Sabathia this season (by all accounts an off year). 20.5M/season could easily be on the low end of the contracts he’s offered.

Decrease runs scored?
Maybe.

Decrease winning? Never seen that proven.
-SFTU

by hazel on Jul 26, 2009 9:16 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

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