Graph of the Day: Interleague Records
In the BtB Power Rankings, we apply a 22.5 run/season bonus to the offense and defense of AL teams, and a similar penalty to NL teams. This is a very large adjustment, and makes it very hard for most NL teams to qualify in the ranking as a 0.500+ team (which makes the Dodgers' first place spot all the more impressive).
Why do we do this? Look:

Vertical bars indicate the American League winning percentages. The line is a 2-year moving average to help smooth out the fluctuations.
Starting in 2005, the American League began to dominate interleague play--one of a number of reasons that we think the junior circuit has superior talent, and a superior level of play, compared to the National league. It seems to have more or less stabilized over the past three years, but I'll update this graph after this year's interplay is complete. It's not unreasonable to think that a 0.500 team in the AL would be a ~0.570 team if they instead played in the NL--that's 92 wins, and a likely playoff berth.
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I'm confused as to the 92 win estimate for an AL team playing .500 ball within the AL...
If we do 2.25 runs per position player bonus/penalty, that’s 9*2.25 which is about 20 runs per team, or two wins. Doubling it gives four wins, which turns a .500 AL team into an 86 win team against NL opponents. MGL estimated about a five-win differential, right?
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
by Sky Kalkman on May 31, 2009 9:13 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Oh, I see where the .570 is from -- the graph.
Huh. Interesting. Regression needed?
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
by Sky Kalkman on May 31, 2009 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No way can you convince me that a 81 win AL team is a 92 win team in the NL
I don’t have the time today to look up interleague records of AL-teams that finished at or below .500 the last few years but I would be interested to see if the winning percentage is as high as .570. It could be but I would bet the fact that the AL has more top flight teams then the NL does probably elevates the winning percentage a lot.
by thoran85 on May 31, 2009 11:24 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Just took a quick look at teams around or under .500 from the AL in 2008
Interleague records from 2008:
SEA: 9-9
CLE: 6-12
TEX: 10-8
OAK: 10-8
Total: 35-37
Winning Percentage: .486
by thoran85 on May 31, 2009 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You didn't happen to cherry pick the data, did you?
Your sample is incomplete. It just happens to include the AL team that had the worst winning percentage in interleague play last year. But it doesn’t include these other AL teams that finished below .500 last year. (2008 interleague record in parenthesis.)
Baltimore (11-7)
Kansas City (13-5)
Detroit (13-5)
Total: 37-17
Winning percentage: .685
Total including other .500 or below teams (from above post) : 72-54
Winning percentage including other .500 or below teams (from above post) : .571
So yeah, if you look at ALL AL teams that finished .500 or below last year, the winning percentage is as high at .570.
While I think the AL is the better league at this point in history, I think the difference between the two leagues is overstated by looking just at last year’s results. But if you do just look at last year’s results, you’ll see there were only two teams (Cleveland, Toronto) in the AL who had a losing record against NL teams, and there was only one team (Cincinnati) in the NL who had a winning record against AL teams.
I am Billy Butler's Gold Glove.
by cbrett42 on Jun 15, 2009 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good Teams from the AL and their winning pertentages in interleague play from 2008
Interleague records from 2008 for the best of the AL:
BOS: 11-7
TB: 12-6
CWS: 12-6
LAA: 10-8
MIN: 14-4
Total: 59-31
Wining Percentage: .655
So maybe the best teams in the AL pick up the worst teams and make the winning percentage that much better.
by thoran85 on May 31, 2009 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So these teams would win 106 games in the NL, on average?
Not really serious, but that’s sort of where your argument heads.
Also, if you remove interleague records, some of the .500 teams listed above would have records similar to the “good” teams. For example, CLE would catch MIN and CHW.
One season is a really small sample size for individual teams, and even for the leagues as a whole. Definitely needs to be some regression involved if we want to use interleague records as a measure of league strength.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
by Sky Kalkman on May 31, 2009 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well that wasn't may point
My point was simply to show that just because the AL as a whole had a winning percentage of .570 against the NL doesn’t mean that a .500 team could just walk into the NL and win 92 because they are from the AL.
That was just a super quick look at the really good teams and average teams in the AL from one year of interleague play to see if the average teams had the same typ eof success that the poster suggested they would. And the results? No they probably would not win 11 extra games.
Was it a complete look? No. but when I have more time I will go through for a couple of years, and would bet the winning percentage of average teams in the AL is much lower then that .570 figure that the poster seems to want to put average AL teams at in the NL.
by thoran85 on May 31, 2009 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
More data? I'm all for that.
If I can suggest something, group the AL teams by record against other AL teams, excluding interleague games. If we’re studying results against NL teams, it seems like we shouldn’t judge quality of AL teams using those games.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
by Sky Kalkman on May 31, 2009 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If an AL team was in the NL
it would lose the DH. If that team stayed in the NL for multiple years, it would likely lose it’s DH hitter since it’s unlikely a team will pay big bucks for someone to sit on the bench (aka Big Papi, Jason Giambi, etc.). I have to imagine that would bring the win total down.
"If Bowden was a general contractor, he'd build houses with nine bedrooms, six garages, no bathrooms, and half a roof."
by DyeLongJustice on May 31, 2009 12:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
There might be an inherent advantage to having a DH, but I've yet to see a good argument for it.
Points people often miss:
- In NL parks, the DH is useless, a waste of money, and the way NL teams are built should be a strength.
- If a team isn’t spending money on a DH, they can spend it to upgrade other positions.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
by Sky Kalkman on May 31, 2009 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Point #1: Right, but when you can choose 8 out of 9 of your better hitters for the lineup in an NL park, the NL team is still stuck with its everyday 8. That to me is an advantage. Giambi and Ortiz could play 1B, as could most other DHs if you really want their bat in the lineup. And the NL is stuck with a pinch hitter, utility type when they need the DH.
Point #2: The NL has an advantage in pinch hitters as they are used so much more often in the NL game, so maybe they spend more money on these backup/pinch hit/utility type players. I haven’t looked at the numbers, I’m just throwing it out there.
I would think that looking at the interleague splits for when AL is home, and NL is home would be more productive to figure this out. My guess would be when the NL is home, the winning percentage for the AL is right around .500, and when the AL is home it goes up.
by AxDxMx on Jun 14, 2009 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
- I assume that the AL DH’s lack significant defensive ability, such that they maybe could play 1B or a corner outfield spot, but they’re going to hurt their overall value significantly by playing the field. If keeping a guy like Travis Hafner at DH in AL games in favor of a better fielding 1B, then benching that 1B in NL parks so Hafner can bat and play 1B is going to hurt the AL team. If Hafner were quite competent in the field, AL teams would be overpaying him to just DH, which is a waste of money and would hurt them elsewhere. Prospects at DH might be an exception but you don’t see that too much. Whoever doesn’t play is probably better than a scrub pinch hitter (including because they probably have defensive value) and that’s wasted value.
http://www.bb-ref.com/play-index/shareit/3Q6E
- You’re probably right that NL teams spend a bit more on pinch hitters (other than the ninth hitter AL teams would have) but if they’re spending too much extra, that’s a waste of money. Who’s been a top pinch hitter recently? How many PAs per season do they get and what’s their OPS? Probably not worth paying them much money for that low production. Meaning the NL teams have money to spend elsewhere on upgrades, or they’re overpaying their PH. (My guess is that it’s probably the first one.)
The splits idea is a good one, to see if there are any advantages beyond simple home field advantage. The sample size is even larger than the past five years when AL teams have dominated interleague play, too, because we only care about the relative performance between parks, not the absolute performances. Let me know when you’ve finished that study ; )
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
by Sky Kalkman on Jun 16, 2009 7:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Using last 5 years data to predict this years run production in AL vs NL ?
I really hate to make my first comment on BtB be about this, but I just can’t resist. I have a few issues with the idea that this year’s power rankings would be based on a run adjustment for hitters and pitchers that can approximately explain the AL’s win percentage over the last 5 years.
First off, does anyone really think that the performance of the NL players today has anything at all to do with it their performance in 2004? 5 years is a long time in baseball. People get traded, youngsters come up, and people get older. I don’t have to time to look it up, but I’d venture a guess that less than 1/2 the players who started 2004 on an NL 25 man roster are still on one. And even if they are, they are 5 years older. No, counting back to 2004 does not make much sense at all. Additionally, what’s the predictive value of looking 5 years back? We don’t have alot of data, but we can look at what we do have. Starting in 2002 this is the AL win % vs their win percentage that previous 5 years (what you would have used to create the power rankings that year).
AL Win % / AL Win % Pre 5 yrs / Difference
2002 48.81% / 49.92 % / 1.11 %
2003 45.63% / 50.49 % / 4.85 %
2004 50.20% / 49.44% / 0.76 %
2005 53.97% / 50.24% / 3.73%
2006 61.11% / 50.20% / 10.91%
2007 54.37% / 51.95% / 2.42%
2008 59.13% / 53.06% / 6.07%
Average variance is 4.26%. FWIW, if your prediction was set at 50% each year instead of the last 5 year win%, the variance would only be 4.9%. So it doesn’t seem to be a very good model does it? Likewise, just take last years win % doesn’t seem to predict next win % all that well either. Every year, the leagues are different than they were the previous year, we should expect variations.
I have to run out, but suffice it to say that is just one of my issues with the AL vs NL adjustments. The others center around the fact that the AL and NL don’t play the same game, even if they do call it baseball in both leagues.
by mtm10 on May 31, 2009 12:42 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Welcome to the blog!
Are you familiar with some of the looks at players who switch between leagues and how they perform?
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
by Sky Kalkman on May 31, 2009 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for the Welcome
I am a little familiar. I get it, pitchers do worse moving from NL to AL, as do hitters (though I haven’t seen as much on the hitters). But once again I would say that has to do with the AL and NL not being the same game. There are plenty of intangibles ( or rather, hard to calculate) that go in to having the DH other than just adding an additional bat in the lineup. I realize specific examples won’t prove anything, but none the less look at the Cardinals this year. Carpenter goes down swinging the bat, misses a month. Lohse get hit by pitch, twice this season, this time it’s going to cost him at least 2 starts. More generally, pitchers have to hit, run the bases, then come back and pitch the next inning rather than sit comfortably sipping gatorade. The double switch takes ABs away from starters, more replacement / bench types get in games in the NL.
What about injury prone guys in the field? Milton Bradley tears in up in the AL last year as DH, looks awful this year as a Cubbie. In less extreme examples, what’s the effect of being able to “rest” Vlad Guerrero in the DH spot every couple of days? Does it make him that much sharper in the field when he plays there, being “fresher”. And not having to actually sit him for a day, does he keep his timing a little better at the plate?
Then there is always the defense factor. When someone says, roughly by this equation a .500 AL team would be a .570 team, are you using only defense stats from the days they play in the NL ballparks? Because you should, except for the extremely small sample size problem. What happens to Redsox defense when they slide Ortiz to 1B, Youk to 3B and Lowell to the outfield(or keep him out of the game). To take AL win % vs NL teams and extrapolate that to “this is what the team would do in the other league” is to ignore that teams are fundamentally built differently in each league.
In general, there are a lot of little things that probably make one large advantage for AL teams playing NL teams in inter league play versus if they played in the NL everyday. I haven’t looked at it yet, but what is the home-road splits for interleague play?
One final point, if this year the AL only wins 50% of interleague games this year, or some number smaller than the win percentage you used to come up with 22.5 runs, will you adjust the power rankings to use that percentage? Even then, I wouldn’t like the comparison that much, but at least it would be looking at this years competitiveness, not 5 years ago.
Sorry if I seem a little fired up about this issue, I really love all the stuff here on BtB, it’s just hard for me to believe a team like the Mariners would automatically win about 90 games if they were in, say, the NL Central. Ditto for the Angels with 5 outfielders for 3 spots, the Royals, the Twins, the White Sox, ect.
by mtm10 on May 31, 2009 2:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Hm. I know we all love power rankings and everything
but with so much disparity between the leagues, does it really make sense to bother with one big power ranking, and not just split them up by league?
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on May 31, 2009 2:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That would be my suggestiong
Split the leagues up into two power rankings.
by mtm10 on May 31, 2009 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
isn't that sort of punting?
Strikes me as saying “this is too hard, lets just give up.”
I’m happy to entertain alternative ways of estimating league disparities. But we do have established approaches of dealing with this problem (e.g. the 2.5 vs. 2.0 win/season replacement levels between the two leagues), and my approach is consistent with those approaches.
-j
My blog: Basement-Dwellers.com
by JinAZ on May 31, 2009 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You know, I just realized something
I’m totally free to just take the ranking and ignore the other league to come up with a de-facto NL and AL ranking, respectively. So I guess that’s kind of silly.
I wasn’t trying to say your methods are bad in any way. It’s just that I’ve come to assume that the AL is superior almost as an a priori, and seeing 3 to 4 AL teams at the top of the power rankings year after year is getting depressing. Setting the NL free of having to be compared to the AL might be nice in a sort of self-delusional, Nietzschean “we must forget history” kind of way.
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on Jun 1, 2009 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just wanted to say...
the terms" junior circuit" and “senior circuit” seem a bit confusing to me these days.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
by Sky Kalkman on Jun 1, 2009 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but I love them
Because it’s all the National League has left. :)
-j
My blog: Basement-Dwellers.com
by JinAZ on Jun 1, 2009 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's what I'm thinking
If space allows, I’m going to add a league-specific expected winning percentage column, and then do the league adjustments, and then finally report the overall expected winning percentage which will be the basis of the ranking.
I’m going to have to add a column anyway next week, so space might be limited. But if I can squeeze it in, I’ll do it.
Cheers,
Justin
My blog: Basement-Dwellers.com
by JinAZ on Jun 1, 2009 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You could always go to two tables, too.
One with all the nuts and bolts stuff, one with a few summarized columns.
Maybe rank the teams in three categories: offense, defense, fielding (although you’d have to lg adjust those individually, then) and overall?
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
by Sky Kalkman on Jun 1, 2009 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think we'll stick with this for now.
If all people want to know is how teams rank, that’s right there in the first column. If they want to see how things shape up, the data are there for them. -j
My blog: Basement-Dwellers.com
by JinAZ on Jun 4, 2009 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As long as you keep up the good work I'm OK with whatever you decide.
Thanks for running it by me first though!
There's no "I" in team. There's also no "I" in "B-g Mac Land".
by mattybobo on Jun 3, 2009 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lots here, but...
1. On the question of whether the AL is a superior league to the NL… MGL still has the best and most comprehensive series of studies that I’ve seen on this point:
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/is-the-al-really-superior/
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/is-the-al-really-superior-part-2/
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/is-the-al-really-superior-part-3/
Those studies are getting old, but I’ve yet to see any sort of more recent comprehensive study running contrary to this. I haven’t even data that indicates anything to the contrary, frankly. I think the evidence is such that we have to assume this is true until a compelling and diverse dataset emerges indicating the contrary.
2. As for my particular way of quantifying the league disparity…
It’s certainly not the case that interleague records are the be-all, end-all. They’re a convenient way to assess how teams from the two leagues stack up to one another, but I’m willing to agree that there are factors that might make them an imperfect measure. My feeling is that concerns about the leagues playing a “different game” are overstated. The same number of games are played in NL parks vs. AL parks, and so teams must be good at both “games” in order to post a dominant winning or losing record.
As far as why 5 years—yeah, it’s arbitrary, but at that point we’re dealing with over 1250 games and a prolonged period of dominance of one league over the other. It’s not due to a one year blip in the data, and there’s little reason to expect this season to be any different. The 5-year average record is 0.558, which is a 90 win season over 162 games—not quite as severe an advantage as looking at more recent years would get you, but still substantial (this is another reason that I chose to do 5 years).
As problematic as the interleague record approach is to setting the league disparity, it turns out that this quick and dirty approach converges with other widely-used treatments of league differences. To recap, I’m bumping up the offense in the AL by 22.5 runs per year. And I’m penalizing the offense and defense in the NL by 22.5 runs per year. This, along with a similar adjustment to defense, predicts AL winning percentage in interleague play via the odds ratio.
How much of an adjustment is this per player? We typically call a full player season 700 PA’s. If we boost or penalize a team’s offense by 22.5 runs per season, and the average team gets 6254 PA’s (like they did last year), that works out to (22.5/6254*700) a 2.5 adjustment per full player season. Amazingly (to me, anyway), this worked out to being exactly the difference we assume between replacement levels in the NL vs. the AL at FanGraphs, Tango’s blog, etc: NL replacement level is ~20 runs below average, AL replacement level is ~25 runs below average, because competition is tougher in the AL. So, that’s a 5 run difference between leagues, and if we split that evenly we’re penalizing NL teams by 2.5 runs and giving AL teams a 2.5 run bonus.
It’s probably the case that I got lucky here more than anything. But even so, we have two independent approaches coming to the same estimate of differences. I think it’s a reasonable adjustment to make, and it is backed up by data.
-j
My blog: Basement-Dwellers.com
by JinAZ on May 31, 2009 3:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Will the formula change based on 2009 interleague results?
Per my previous post, in 2006 the AL won 61.11% of games after only winning 50.20% in the previous 5 years. That year the AL was dominant, and had you been doing the same type projection, you would not have captured that dominance. Luckily, interleague play ends in about a month. Would you consider changing your formula for the rest of the season, if say the NL ends up winning 55%? It’s a new season, and regardless of what happened last year or 5 years ago, it’s all about what happens this year right?
by mtm10 on May 31, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, it's not all about what happens this year
Because this year’s results will be influenced by some degree of random chance. We’re correcting for long-standing league differences, not year to year fluctuations, because long-standing differences are projectable and year to year fluctuations are not. The players may change (and age), but disparities and payroll, front office talent, or whatever the cause, will persist over time.
I can see using a weighted mean to up-weight recent years (say 5/4/3/2/1?), but that’s just going to exacerbate the size of the league adjustment that many seem so skeptical about. I can also see instituting some sort of regression to the mean, but 1250 games strikes me as a lot…
So yeah, my inclination for next year, at this point, is to look at 5-year interleague records (2005-2009) and use that, at least in part, as a means of correcting of league disparities.
As I said above, though, I’m very open and interested in alternative ways to estimate the league differences. This was my first go at such an adjustment, but I like that it matches up well to how people do WAR. My feeling is that it’s pretty close to spot on, at least in terms of the size of the league adjustment.
-j
My blog: Basement-Dwellers.com
by JinAZ on May 31, 2009 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The popular approach to strength of schedule adjustments is:
25% team winning percentage
50% opponents’ winning percentage
25% opponents’ opponents’ winning percentage
You could replace winning percentage with whatever: runs scored, linear weights runs scored, etc.
I think the first piece is in there to account for the fact that good teams will make their opponents look worse.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
by Sky Kalkman on Jun 3, 2009 4:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
How are interleague records and run differentials looking so far this year?
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
by Sky Kalkman on Jun 16, 2009 7:54 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs










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