Beyond the Box Score: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Sports blogs for fans, by fans.
New Blog: Sounder At Heart for Seattle Sounders Fans!

Jake Peavy To White Sox: Evaluating Potential Trades

Photo

More photos » by Lenny Ignelzi - AP

Twitter was all aflutter with news of a potential Jake Peavy trade from the San Diego Padres to the Chicago White Sox this morning.  Jon Heyman had the first article I saw reporting that it was a done deal as long Peavy waives his no-trade clause.  Nobody knows, yet, however, who will be going from the White Sox to the Padres.  Let's take a look at what value Peavy should provide to the White Sox, and if what they're possibly giving up will be worth it.

How Good Is Peavy?

Jake Peavy is a two-time All-Star and 2007 Cy Young Winner.  He's been at the heart of many a fantasy championship and sports career peripherals of 9 Ks, 3 BBs, and .9 HRs per nine innings, plus a career 3.27 ERA and 3.49 FIP.  Those are ace numbers, no doubt about it.

But how much has PETCO Park helped his numbers?  And how much has he benefited from pitching in the National League, not having to face designated hitters?  PETCO is by far the best pitchers' park in the game, reducing scoring by about 15% over other NL parks.  It's especially helpful to fly ball pitchers, reducing home runs by about 25%.

A quick and dirty park adjustment would increase the number of runs allowed by Peavy by 8% (half the 15% quoted above since only half his starts have come at home).  That yields a 3.54 career park-adjusted ERA.  Switching between the NL and AL typically adds about .75 runs onto a pitcher's ERA, but let's be conservative and call it .50 runs for Peavy.  He's now at a 4.04 adjusted career ERA.

What's that you say?  Using career numbers is unfair?  And ERA is a bad stat.  I agree.  Let's try some other measures of expected performance, and then adjust for park and league like we did above.

  • Peavy's Marcel ERA projection for 2009 (which weights the past three seasons' ERAs) is 3.22 and, well, that's not far off his career ERA.
  • Weighting Peavy's past three seasons' tRAs at 5/3/2 yields a 3.29 projected ERA, although that's already park-adjusted, so it looks like a 3.79 ERA with the league adjustment.
  • tRA* (which regresses a pitcher's peripherals) projects a fully adjusted 4.25 ERA. 
  • xFIP, which is like FIP, but regresses home run per fly ball rate to league average (thus possibly accounting for PETCO's large size) projects a full adjusted 4.26 ERA  (I didn't use a further park-adjustment than what xFIP already uses.)

Hmm, there's actually a lot of agreement there.  To be conservative, let's ignore the possibility that US Cellular won't affect Peavy any more than a neutral stadium (even though it might, considering it increases home runs by about 25%) and assume a 4.00 ERA projection going forward, which only tRA would argue is too high.

What Is Peavy's Value?

Star-divide

Given an ERA and innings pitched projections, a starting pitcher's wins above replacement value is actually easy to calculate.  On a team with average offense, we can get Peavy's winning percentage using Pythagenpat, compare him to a replacement-level starter who wins at a .390 rate in the American League, then multiply by full games pitched by Peavy (IP/9).  Using 200 IP as Peavy's projection (that's what he's averaged over the past four years and I'm being generous not regressing), his projected WAR over a full season is 3.8.  That's a borderline All-Star player.

On the free agent market, where wins cost about $4.5M, Peavy can be valued at $17.6M per season, or exactly what he's schedule to make over the next three seasons.  In 2008, he'll earn $8M, providing an excess value of $9.6M.

Assuming the Padres don't kick in any extra money, and we give the White Sox the remaining 140 IP we project for Peavy this year, their pro-rated share of excess value is $6.7M.

How Good Are the Prospects Headed to the Padres?

Nobody knows for sure what the return haul will be and I'm no prospects guru, but thanks to prospect rankings by Baseball America and John Sickels, the research done by Victor Wang, and Erik's application of the research, we have a pretty good guess at the future value each prospect will provide.  Future value is the difference in what their expected performance would be worth on the free agent market over their six years under team control compared to what they'll likely be paid over those six years.

  • Gordon Beckham is the White Sox top prospect, a second baseman taken in last year's draft.  He can't be traded until after June 8th, although the Sox could get around that by calling him a PTBNL.  Baseball America ranked him in the 11 to 25 range of all prospects, which provides a future value of $22M.
  • Dayan Viciedo is another top hitting prospect, ranked in the 51 to 75 range by BA, with a future value of $12.5M.
  • Aaron Poreda is the White Sox top pitching prospect, a left-hander ranked in the same range as Viciedo, but has a slightly lower $11M future value, as pitching prospects tend to be a bit overrated.
  • Tyler Flowers is a catching (for now) prospect who came over from the Braves in the Javier Vazquez deal this off-season.  He's in the bottom quarter of BA's Top 100 list, making his future value the same as Poreda's at $11M.
  • There are no more prospects of significant value according to BA and Sickels, although Erik encouraged me to mention Brad Allen, whom he thinks Sickels should have graded as a B hitter instead of a C hitter.  Going with the B rating, Allen would provide $5M in future value.
  • All other prospects in the system have a future value of $1.5M or less, including Clayton Richard, whom Sickels calls a C level prospect and is 23 years old.  No, I'm not going to count Jose Contreras.

Putting It All Together

In summary, this trade is likely going to be a win for the Padres.  Not only is Jake Peavy overrated based on his home ballpark and league, his salary provides minimal savings over what's typically available on the free agent market.  In fact, Javier Vazquez, who the White Sox traded away this off-season, is a very similar pitcher, and earns less money.

All four of the top White Sox prospects should provide more value than Peavy going forward.  If Gordon Beckham along or more than two of the other top five prospects are included in the deal, it's a huge win for the Padres.  Although, if the White Sox are able to avoid trading any of their top prospects or receive some cash from the San Diego to help pay Peavy's salary, then perhaps the trade could tilt in Chicago's favor

That being said, the White Sox apparently felt like they needed antoher high-quality starter right now, and free agents only sign during the off-season (obviously).  It's perhaps worth paying a price for the convenience of adding a very good pitcher right now, but I'm worried the White Sox will be paying too high of a price.  We'll have to wait and see.  Who doesn't love a blockbuster trade?

1 recs  |  Comment 28 comments |

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

sounds like Peavy is going to nix the deal

Can’t say I really blame him. oh, well. talking blockbusters in May is always exciting.

godfather of futureredbirds.net

by erik on May 21, 2009 1:05 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Updating the numbers...

4.5 WAR is worth $21M per year, or a net value of $4M. Three year of that plus this year’s remaining $7M make Peavy’s overall net value $19M. Padres would need more than Poreda and Richard.

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on May 21, 2009 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The projectoins are all for him pitching in Petco, though, right? and in the NL

If the league adjustments and stuff are right, then we’d expect his value to be about the same if he changed teams/parks/leagues

In my NL West preview, averaging CHONE/PECOTA/ZiPS w/Clay’s playing time predictions, I had Peavy at 3.9 WAR in 190 innings.

On a different note, while this would make the Sox better, even if he is replacing a guy who would be replacement level for the rest of the year, I don’t think it puts them in the hunt. Three more wins, maybe.

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

by devil_fingers on May 21, 2009 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I disagree with your conclusion

Peavy may not be an ace in some other parks, but in Petco he is god. ZIPS updated projections thinks he will put up a 3.29 FIP in 203.3 innings this year. That would make him roughly a 4.5 WAR player, even after considering Petco. At 28 years old, he would probably be able to sustain a similar level of success for the remainder of his contract, maybe losing .3 WAR a year.

The question is then whether or not the Padre’s could be competitive during the remainder of his contract. This is a team with talent, they are definitely not as bad as they have shown the past couple of seasons. If you figure they have a decent chance of being able to put a competitive team on the field in one of the next 3 years, then it might be worth it to keep Peavy.

St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008

by vivaelpujols on May 21, 2009 1:16 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Good post though

I hope you do these for other trade rumors.

St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008

by vivaelpujols on May 21, 2009 1:19 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

beckham is a SS, not a 2B

“brad” allen is brandon allen. and sickels did rank him a B-.

White Sox Minor League Updates: http://twitter.com/SouthSidelarry

by larry on May 21, 2009 1:33 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

in his book?

because at the site I see a C+.

godfather of futureredbirds.net

by erik on May 21, 2009 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

search allen's name. he revised. just like he revised viciedo. yes, also in book.

White Sox Minor League Updates: http://twitter.com/SouthSidelarry

by larry on May 21, 2009 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i would note, as i did on the post below, that there are some prospects in the white sox system who probably have increased their standing so far.

sickels liked both hudson and carter as “sleepers” and they’ve acquitted themselves well so far. probably not above Cs but good upside. gregory infante has also gotten some attention. i mention infante and leesman in particular because when i was talking to rick hahn on tuesday, those were two guys he mentioned. since this trade was probably being discussed prominently at that time, those two may have been on his mind for a reason.

White Sox Minor League Updates: http://twitter.com/SouthSidelarry

by larry on May 21, 2009 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Peavy's 2009 salary is $11 million

he got the bump for winning the CYA a few years back.

by Eric Stephen on May 21, 2009 1:40 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Peavy's agent - hat tip Neyer

 “If I had to make a bet on it, I would guess that Jake would say he’s not ready to take that step today,” Axelrod said. "But he wouldn’t necessarily preclude it at any time in the future.

“We aren’t hiding anything from anybody. Jake has a strong preference to stay in the National League. He has a comfort zone there, he’s been successful, and he’s won a Cy Young Award. I don’t know that on May 21, that preference has eroded very much. From our point of view we may say, ’Let’s give (the Padres) more time and see if a National League team might step up over the next six weeks.’

“If this were any one of three or four other teams and they called about him, Jake would jump at it. He would be willing. They know who they are. They know that certain places are more enticing to him.”

by Dan Turkenkopf on May 21, 2009 1:41 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

If Beckham isn't in the trade (and everyone is saying that he isn't), then I think it's a clear win for the White Sox

Everything I’m reading is saying that Poreda and Richard are the centerpieces of the deal. Poreda, Richard, Flowers and Viciedo for Peavy is a horrendous deal for the Padres.

The immoderate moderator

by NYRoyal on May 21, 2009 1:58 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

if flowers were in the trade, i would be very upset.

that bat is legit. i don’t care if he ends up “only” a 1B.

at any rate, everyone is saying that it’s pitchers and not position players who are in the deal.

White Sox Minor League Updates: http://twitter.com/SouthSidelarry

by larry on May 21, 2009 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

All four of those guys, really?

Going by the prospect ratings, Poreda, Flowers, and Viciedo are quite a haul, well above my revised value estimate for Peavy.

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on May 21, 2009 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i generally agree with your assessment of peavy's value.

which is why i hope peavy says no. i’m not even particularly attached to poreda, who appears to be the centerpiece of the deal, and clayton seems like a loogy/longman. and the players appear to be a list of four pitchers, from which the padres choose two. as noted, i doubt any of these would be considered much more than high upside guys if they’re from the low minors or low upside backend guys if from the high minors. the pitching in the white sox organization is not very good.

that said, peavy isn’t that good. and his contract is basically market rate. and if he wants his option year guaranteed…well, forget it.

White Sox Minor League Updates: http://twitter.com/SouthSidelarry

by larry on May 21, 2009 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Taking the Fangraphs ZiPS projection...

…for FIP and adjusting for park/league I get a 4.50 RA projection for Peavy. (RA, not ERA.) AL this year so far is 5 RPG. So that gives us:

(4.5+5)^.28=1.88

And so:

5^1.88/(5^1.88+4.5^1.88)=.549

In 190 IP, that’s 11.59 wins or 3.8 WAR. Prorate that out to however many IP you like.

by cwyers on May 21, 2009 3:12 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Isn't that a picture of chad gaudin?

"It's like déjà vu all over again." -yogi berra

by Cheezombie on May 21, 2009 3:30 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Is it?

You can tell I’ve seen Peavy pitch a lot, huh? It was the first AP Photo that popped up as suggested based on the text of the article. You win a Zach Greinke t-shirt! (Just go to the upcoming Royals game where they’re giving them away.)

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on May 21, 2009 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

you know you can search for specific players

and it will give you a bunch of photos featuring that player. just use the search box. the AP photos have become my absolute favorite new gizmo from SBNation.

go look that up in your Funk and Wagnalls

by Charlie Scrabbles on May 21, 2009 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

it's not your fault.

i mean, you’ve never actually seen a baseball game played so i don’t know why anyone would expect you to be able to differentiate between gaudin and peavy.

White Sox Minor League Updates: http://twitter.com/SouthSidelarry

by larry on May 21, 2009 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Awesome.

Space.

It's a problem we face.

So we never go anywhere.

We just stay in one place.

by hazel on May 21, 2009 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

if he agrees to this deal, I don’t think he turns around the White Sox rotation or team

by Mac and Jax Connection on May 21, 2009 5:48 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Peavy won't waive his no-trade clause.

And anyways, the Sox getting one accomplished starter will drain their farm system and won’t get them the division win. I say save the prospects, let someone else take peavys’ burden. If he ever waives his no trade clause.

The Trade-Maker.

by trademaker on May 26, 2009 5:10 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

We use numbers and stuff.
Community Guidelines
Why be a member?
Start posting on Beyond the Box Score »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Small
PZR-based Win Values 2001-2006

Recent FanPosts

Small
The "30 parks on a budget" challenge
Sunflower_small
World Series Simulation, Game #6
Small
JT20 Dynasty League
E52205a2_small
New Look
Sth70021_small
Exploring Hit f/x, Albeit Badly
Redcap_small
Ricky Nolasco: 4 WAR or 1 WAR?
Redcap_small
Apparently I can't do park adjustments
Small
Which tells us more: The last 7 at bats or 7 at bats against this pitcher?
Sleepy_jeff_small
How Efficient and Effective Were the Rockies in 2009?

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

FanShots

Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.

Recent FanShots

The Mistake Lottery
On the Field, the Yankees Are The Team of the Decade. Off It? The Red Sox.
Tigers' all-time WAR leaders
Primer on Runs Created
How to improve basketball
LB Keith Bulluck uses a sabermetric analogy to explain the Titans' quarterback situation.
Alcides Escobar "abandoned his daughter before she was born"
UZR, Scouting, and the Fans
Not-So-Lousy Lineup Optimizer, Playoff Edition: New York Yankees

+ New FanShot All FanShots >

BtB on Twitter

Main Feed: @BtBScore

Tommy B: @tommy_bennett
Sky: @BtB_Sky
Dan: @dturkenk
Harry: @harrypav
Jinaz: @jinazreds
Jack: @jh_moore
Erik: @Erik_Manning
Tommy R: @trancel
Justin: @justinbopp

Subscribe to BtB via Email

Enter your email address:

Delivered by FeedBurner

Most Commented

BtB Goes Social


Managers

Nando_small R.J. Anderson

Limes_125_small Sky Kalkman

E52205a2_small Tommy Bennett

Editors

Face_small Harry Pavlidis

Rawlings_baseball_bigger_small Dan Turkenkopf

770insig_small Jeff Zimmerman (TucsonRoyal)

Aviles_small Justin Bopp

Authors

Banny_small erik

Raysring1_small Tommy Rancel

Jinaz-reds-avatar_small JinAZ

Jmlogo_small Jack Moore

1753738656_110919ebe9_o_small vivaelpujols

1_small Graham

Baseball_small Mike Rogers

Redcap_small SFiercex4

Small Patrick Clark

Walter_album_small Walter Fulbright