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2009 Season Predictions

Ahh... only two more days until we can all get our heads out of our spreadsheets, climb the stairs of our mothers' basements, and start watching honest-to-goodness games that count.

But before the first pitch leaves Brett Myers' hand on Sunday night, we've got what you've all been waiting for: the Beyond the Box Score season predictions.

We've asked the writers to submit their picks for how the 2009 season is going to unfold and we've compiled them in one central location that we can easily delete in October so no one can see how wrong we all were.

Without further adieu, we'll start with

American League East

Rj_anderson_medium

R.J. Anderson

Graham_goldbeck_medium

Graham Goldbeck

Sky_kalkman_medium

Sky Kalkman

Erik_manning_medium

Erik Manning

Harry_pavlidis_medium

Harry Pavlidis

Dan_turkenkopf_medium

Dan Turkenkopf
1. Red Sox Red Sox Red Sox Red Sox Yankees Red Sox
2. Rays Rays Rays Yankees Red Sox Yankees
3. Yankees Yankees Yankees Rays Rays Rays
4. Blue Jays Blue Jays Blue Jays Blue Jays Blue Jays Blue Jays
5. Orioles Orioles Orioles Orioles Orioles Orioles

 

R.J.: Yes I am a dirty homer who can’t stand the thought of winning 90+ games and missing out on the playoffs. Baseball’s version of the group of death.

Graham: I think Arod obviously hurts the Yanks chances, and injuries are never a pleasant thing, is he going to be the same player right away? I have no idea, but I think it certainly knocks the Yankees down a peg or two. The Red Sox depth is just so grand I think they take the top spot. The Rays will likely be the WC anyway so they'll still be in the playoffs.

Check out the rest of the predictions after the jump...

Star-divide

American League Central

 

R.J. Anderson

Graham_goldbeck_medium

Graham Goldbeck

Sky_kalkman_medium

Sky Kalkman

Erik_manning_medium

Erik Manning

Harry_pavlidis_medium

Harry Pavlidis

Dan_turkenkopf_medium

Dan Turkenkopf
1. Indians Twins Indians Indians Indians Indians
2. White Sox
Indians Tigers Twins Twins Twins
3. Twins Royals White Sox White Sox
Royals White Sox
4. Tigers White Sox
Twins Tigers Tigers Tigers
5. Royals Tigers Royals Royals
White Sox
Royals

 

Graham: Royals love here. Unfounded? Probably, but I just don't know with this division. Twins over Indians is mostly about rotational depth, Cleveland is pretty shallow as it is and if something happens to Lee they're in big trouble.

R.J.: I wonder how the writers proclaiming the Royals as the new Rays are going to react.

Sky: This one's all Indians, although they probably won't win 90 games.  Very good offense including some rebound and breakout seasons, plus a  competent bullpen.  It's not just adding Wood, but removing Borowski.  I don't love Lee and Carmona, but the back end should surprise people, especially Anthony Reyes, a few years late for Cardinals fans.  The Tigers have a similar team to last year's, which was supposed to be awesome. The White Sox, Twins, and Royals have too many holes, although I'd rather be a Royals fan this year because they're sloping in the better direction.

American League West

Rj_anderson_medium

R.J. Anderson

Graham_goldbeck_medium

Graham Goldbeck

Sky_kalkman_medium

Sky Kalkman

Erik_manning_medium

Erik Manning

Harry_pavlidis_medium

Harry Pavlidis

Dan_turkenkopf_medium

Dan Turkenkopf
1. Athletics Athletics Athletics Athletics Athletics Athletics
2. Mariners
Angels Angels Angels Angels Angels
3. Angels Rangers Rangers Mariners
Mariners Mariners
4. Rangers Mariners
Mariners Rangers Rangers Rangers

 

Dan: I don't really like any of the teams to win the division here - although they'll be better than the NL West last season.  I don't think the Mariners will make the jump a lot of people are predicting (the improved OF defense will help, but not as much as getting better pitchers).  And the Rangers just need to be better.

R.J.: Baseball’s version of the group of disarray. In the past month the Angels have lost three members of their rotation to injury, the M’s have turned their third best starter into the closer, and the Athletics have lost their ace and potentially their relief ace. The Rangers, meanwhile, signed and released Jimmy Gobble.

Sky: Take 90-win talent, swap a great closer for an okay one and one overrated outfielder for another one, let Mark Teixeira walk, and start the season with a handful of starting pitcher injury questions, and you're looking at a slightly above-average team.  Texas, well, the pitching won't arrive by enough this year, and the defense is going to need another two upgrades.  Nelson Cruz, mmmm.

 

National League East

Rj_anderson_medium

R.J. Anderson

Graham_goldbeck_medium

Graham Goldbeck

Sky_kalkman_medium

Sky Kalkman

Erik_manning_medium

Erik Manning

Harry_pavlidis_medium

Harry Pavlidis

Dan_turkenkopf_medium

Dan Turkenkopf
1. Mets Mets Mets Phillies Mets Phillies
2. Braves
Braves Braves Mets Phillies Mets
3. Phillies Phillies Phillies Braves
Braves Marlins
4. Marlins Marlins
Marlins Marlins Nationals Braves
5. Nationals Nationals Nationals Nationals Marlins Nationals

 

Erik: I really could see the Braves sneaking in here and ruining my playoff predictions.

Graham: Early injury to Cole Hamels does not bode well, his large workload increase last year may already be showing. I think the Braves rotation has made enormous strides, more on the Lowe side than the Vazquez side (a player can only underachieve his FIP for so long before something is just up). The Mets are just the most solid team all around and since they've held the divisional lead in Sept. two years running now, third time should be the charm right?

R.J.: Poor Adam Dunn.

National League Central

Rj_anderson_medium

R.J. Anderson

Graham_goldbeck_medium

Graham Goldbeck

Sky_kalkman_medium

Sky Kalkman

Erik_manning_medium

Erik Manning

Harry_pavlidis_medium

Harry Pavlidis

Dan_turkenkopf_medium

Dan Turkenkopf
1. Cubs Cubs Cubs Cubs Cubs Cubs
2. Cardinals
Cardinals Cardinals Cardinals Cardinals Brewers
3. Brewers Brewers Brewers Brewers
Reds Cardinals
4. Astros Reds
Reds Reds Astros Reds
5. Reds Astros Pirates Pirates
Brewers
Astros
6. Pirates Pirates Astros Astros
Pirates
Pirates

 

R.J.: One thing is for certain: this is baseball’s most populated division. And the Cubs will likely take the crown again.

Erik: Being the homer that I am, I think the Cardinals will be better than projected. A healthy Chris Carpenter could push them into wild card contention, but I'm not holding my breath. The Reds are intriguing but still maybe a couple of years away.

Dan: The Cubs should have the best record in the NL again, but anything less than a championship will be a failure.  I think the rest of the division is in for a down year, except for Superman, I mean Albert Pujols, who might be the one player Matt Wieters fears.

National League West

Rj_anderson_medium

R.J. Anderson

Graham_goldbeck_medium

Graham Goldbeck

Sky_kalkman_medium

Sky Kalkman

Erik_manning_medium

Erik Manning

Harry_pavlidis_medium

Harry Pavlidis

Dan_turkenkopf_medium

Dan Turkenkopf
1. Diamondbacks Dodgers Dodgers Dodgers Dodgers Dodgers
2. Dodgers
Giants Diamondbacks Rockies Giants Diamondbacks
3. Giants Diamondbacks Giants Diamondbacks
Diamondbacks Giants
4. Rockies Rockies
Rockies Giants Rockies Rockies
5. Padres Padres Padres Padres
Padres
Padres

 

R.J.:I can buy any of the top three. The pitching is ridiculous. Seriously considering purchasing MLB.TV just to watch the Lincecum v. Webb/Kershaw/whoever games.

Sky: Yes, I'm putting the Giants with the Dodgers and Diamondbacks, partially because I think they'll surprise people and half because I think the Dodgers are a bit overrated.  Brian Sabean has actually made a nice change in approach over the last couple years, ushering in a collection of talented young players to complement underrated veterans.

Wild Cards

Rj_anderson_medium

R.J. Anderson

Graham_goldbeck_medium

Graham Goldbeck

Sky_kalkman_medium

Sky Kalkman

Erik_manning_medium

Erik Manning

Harry_pavlidis_medium

Harry Pavlidis

Dan_turkenkopf_medium

Dan Turkenkopf
AL Rays Rays Rays Yankees Phillies Yankees
NL Braves
Braves Braves Mets Red Sox
Mets

 

The Playoffs

Rj_anderson_medium

R.J. Anderson

Graham_goldbeck_medium

Graham Goldbeck

Sky_kalkman_medium

Sky Kalkman

Erik_manning_medium

Erik Manning

Harry_pavlidis_medium

Harry Pavlidis

Dan_turkenkopf_medium

Dan Turkenkopf
ALDS Red Sox
Rays
Athletics
Rays
Rays
Red Sox
Red Sox
Yankees
Red Sox
Yankees
Red Sox
Yankees
NLDS Cubs
Mets
Cubs
Mets
Cubs
Mets
Mets
Phillies
Cubs
Mets
Cubs
Dodgers
ALCS
Red Sox
Athletics Red Sox
Red Sox
Yankees Yankees
NLCS Mets Cubs
Cubs Mets Cubs Dodgers
World Series
Red Sox
Athletics Red Sox
Mets
Yankees
Yankees

 

Sky: Do I have to project the playoffs?  I'll just go by better teams and hope everyone on this site knows how little that means.

Graham: Yeah so I've got some change on the A's at 60:1 so sue me. Also I just like the fact that I have the Cubs get all the way to the WS only to lose. I am such a heartless bastard.

The Awards

Rj_anderson_medium

R.J. Anderson

Graham_goldbeck_medium

Graham Goldbeck

Sky_kalkman_medium

Sky Kalkman

Erik_manning_medium

Erik Manning

Harry_pavlidis_medium

Harry Pavlidis

Dan_turkenkopf_medium

Dan Turkenkopf
MVP Grady Sizemore
Albert Pujols
Jason Bay
David Wright
Grady Sizemore
Albert Pujols
Grady Sizemore
David Wright
Grady Sizemore
David Wright
Grady Sizemore
Albert Pujols
Cy Young Roy Halladay
Brandon Webb
Josh Beckett
Tim Lincecum
C.C. Sabathia
Javier Vazquez
C.C. Sabathia
Johan Santana
C.C. Sabathia
Tim Lincecum
Roy Halladay
Johan Santana
ROY Matt Wieters
Jordan Schaeffer
Matt Wieters
Cameron Maybin
Matt Wieters
Jordan Schaeffer
Matt Wieters
Cameron Maybin
Matt Wieters
Cameron Maybin
Matt Wieters
Jordan Schaeffer

 

Sky on Grady Sizemore: He's that good and the Indians will be good.  I know it's cliched at this point, but I'm wishcasting BJ Upton to go crazy, too.

R.J on Roy Halladay: Albert Pujols: NL MVP :: Halladay: AL CY

Graham on Matt Wieters: You know how I know Matt Wieters will win the ROTY award? Because Matt Wieters came to me in my dream and told me "Hey brah, I'm going to win the ROTY award", and I do not taketh the lord's name in vain, even in dream form.

Erik on David Wright: Only because the Cardinals miss the playoffs, Albert should be the man. Again.

Sky on Javier Vasquez: Out of a homer-friendly park, in front of a much better defense, in the National League, and on a surprisingly good team.  Good pitcher, potentially great story.  The best pitcher will probably be Brandon Webb (as one could argue he was last year), but with that infield defense and hitter-friendly stadium, his ERA won't be pretty enough.

 

Over/Under

Rj_anderson_medium

R.J. Anderson

Graham_goldbeck_medium

Graham Goldbeck

Sky_kalkman_medium

Sky Kalkman

Erik_manning_medium

Erik Manning

Harry_pavlidis_medium

Harry Pavlidis

Dan_turkenkopf_medium

Dan Turkenkopf
Overrated Phillies
Angels
Phillies
Yankees
Astros
Twins
Astros
Angels
Brewers
Angels>
Brewers
Rangers
Underrated Diamondbacks
White Sox
Cardinals
Royals
Braves, Giants
Mariners
Braves
Tigers
Nationals
Royals
Diamondbacks
Twins
Overvalued Manny Ramirez
Daisuke Matsuzaka
Barry Zito
Gary Matthews Jr.
Ryan Howard
Josh Hamilton
Miguel Tejada
Michael Young
Ken Griffey Jr.
Francisco Rodriguez
Barry Zito
Michael Young
Undervalued Carlos Beltran
Brian Roberts
Albert Pujols
Mark Ellis
Brandon Webb
Bobby Abreu
Brandon Webb
Adrian Beltre
Grady Sizemore
Aramis Ramirez
Brandon Webb
Josh Beckett

 

R.J. on the Phillies: Doing a very nice job ensuring another World Series title will be a whiles away. 

Dan on the Rangers: Some people are predicting them to compete in the AL West.  They might, but it says more about the quality of the division than the quality of the team.

Sky on the Astros: They have Lance Berkman coming off a career year, an aging Roy Oswalt, and, uh, what else besides crash and burn?

R.J. on the White Sox: Because if they outperform projections this year I want to sound smart.

Graham on the Royals: OK, so Dayton Moore spent a good amount of money this offseason on some suspect moves. But I still think most of them are improvements, even if they cost a bunch of money. I think they'll make some folks turn heads. Just don't expect them to be this years Rays.

Dan on Michael Young: Should lose a lot of value in this move to third

Erik on Miguel Tejada: Maybe most people know that by now, but he's projected to be less than a 2 WAR player and is getting paid $13M.

Graham on Mark Ellis: The fact that he doesn't have a Gold Glove yet to his name is a traveshamockery.

Sky on Josh Hamilton: Two other names with a 136ish OPS+ last year: JD
Drew and Jack Cust.  And Hamilton's more like an average corner
outfield than a center fielder.  Good player, not THAT good.

Now it's your turn...

Put your predictions up against the collected wisdom of Beyond the Box Score.  Just don't taunt us too much when you turn out to be right.

Comment 81 comments  |  1 recs  | 

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Around SB Nation

It's prediction time

Apr 2009 from Pinstripe Alley - 61 comments

2009 Season Predictions

Apr 2009 from Amazin' Avenue - 15 comments

Comments

Display:

The A's across the board?

A rotation decimated by injuries, two replacement starters and the other three have a combined 6 starts above high-A. Not to mention their bullpen regressing to the mean. Color me skeptical.

I think the Angels money-power their way to the top.

by Daniel Berlyn on Apr 3, 2009 9:14 AM EDT reply actions  

There might be some rooting involved on my part ; )

But it should be really close.

I will say that for the starters, they don’t need 5/5 guys to pull through, they need 5/12 guys to pull through. The glory of depth.

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Apr 3, 2009 9:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

OMG Sky rooting interests, seriously?

What happened to the impartiality and unbiased predictions I expected from this site? For shame, for shame.

Can't get enough of the Oakland A's? Visit Oaktown Awesomer's. For further statistical analysis, Beyond the Box Score.

by iamawesomer on Apr 3, 2009 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

I might as well add some commentary

Yankees > Sox – I think it’s still very close, since ARod will be back soon enough, and if the Yanks can get lucky. So, I’m surprised I’m the only one of us who picked them.

ChiSox – Another surprise, I’m the biggest pessimist on them here. I guess that’s either my Northside bias or the fact that I get to hear the news everyday about the team they’re putting out there.

The Nationals have some upside players, IMO, so I’m pushing them a little bit since, who knows, they may get lucky on a few of those young pitchers, for example.

Brewers – minus sheets, minus sabathia. not good.

by Harry Pavlidis on Apr 3, 2009 10:18 AM EDT reply actions  

Pleased to see near consensus on the falling Astros.

The “Let’s sign the All-Star Team from five years ago” model is boring to watch, and it’s frustrating when ESPNdiots slurp it up.

by Evan Nelson on Apr 3, 2009 10:53 AM EDT reply actions  

The Astros were hard to place.

I thought about putting them last, but I’m not sure how the Pirates pitching will work out, and really Reds/Astros was a coin flip. I’m guessing I should’ve went with Reds.

by R.J. Anderson on Apr 3, 2009 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

I like Sky’s picks the most since they have faith in my team. Goldbeck’s blatant homerism on the WS pick is pretty awesome too.

Also, Jordan Schaeffer? Really? Is he related to Jair Jurrgens, Matt Weiters, or maybe Nate McClouth?

by VictorW on Apr 3, 2009 11:05 AM EDT reply actions  

Methinks “held” is a bad word choice when referring to the Mets’ last two September leads.

by r.qatar on Apr 3, 2009 11:19 AM EDT reply actions  

questions

1.How can the A’s be consensus top picks with thier injuries?
2. Do you think Mike Maddux and the new Rangers’ conditioning program will keep thier pitchers healthy and return them (Millwood, Padilla, McCarthy) to ML capable SPs?

Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year

by RangerMad on Apr 3, 2009 11:28 AM EDT reply actions  

I am very curious to know

how you can justify your rankings in the AL West. While I do agree that it is a bit of a crapshoot division because there are no clear dominant teams, but the unanimous selection of the A’s seems…questionable. Beyond your collective blinding love of all things Billy Beane, what logic was behind that selection? How is their current rotation, featuring Dallas Braden as their “ace”, Dana Eveland’s stellar 232 career innings with a 5.23 ERA, and two pitchers who have little experience above A ball, significantly better than any other rotation in the division?

by clark on Apr 3, 2009 11:30 AM EDT reply actions  

Not any one person can answer the unanimous question.

My guess (as this is what I was thinking) is that the A’s and Angels look to be very similar, and I went with the more interesting/high-upside choice.

Did someone say the A’s rotation was significantly better than any other rotation?

We didn’t include team win totals, which would show which teams we each think will finish close together (Rays/Yankees/Red Sox for me) and which won’t (those three compared to the Jays/Orioles for me). I’d go A’s and Angels in the low to mid 80s with the Rangers and Mariners in the mid to high 70s. Both pairs are within the error bars.

Good points about the A’s rotation question marks, but they have so many options to try out when/if someone fails, that I like their situation. Going with, say, Kris Benson, would be a much worse decision, not that it’s the wrong one for the Rangers who have reasons to keep their pitching prospects in the minors a bit longer.

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Apr 3, 2009 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

as an admitted Rangers fan

having matched up the Rangers roster with the A’s roster spot by spot, I just don’t see much of a gap, if any. I really can’t see how the current Rangers rotation is behind the current A’s rotation. I would take Millwood and Padilla in contract years to outperform Braden and Eveland, and we can let Harrison and Gallagher cancel each other out as well. The back half will consist of some combo of Benson, McCarthy, and Holland, the latter two having upsides similar to those of Cahill and Anderson (especially in their rookie years). The A’s bullpen is probably stronger, even without Devine, but their lineup, even with Holliday and Cabrera, is still weaker than the Rangers’ lineup. I would say the two teams are pretty evenly matched, and yet here they are listed on the polar ends of the rankings.

The other two teams, the Angels and Mariners, are certainly in the mix as well. The key is whether the Angels can get their pitching healthy. If they can, they seem like the obvious favorites. If not, they join the glut. I just don’t see how the Mariners made up enough wins over the offseason to join everyone else. This is referencing what Adam posted on LSB regarding 2008 3rd order W/L:

The Angels were an 84 win team.

The Rangers were a 79 win team.

The A’s were a 77 win team.

The M’s were a 65 win team.

What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.

by clark on Apr 3, 2009 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'd love you see you do a breakdown by position.

How about using CHONE projections? Other ideas? Can we at least use a WAR framework?

I’ll also note that polar ends of the standing aren’t actually all that far in the AL West. I’m talking, say 84 wins to 76 wins, or less.

Mariners making up wins:
1B upgrade from awful to average: 3 wins
Johjima rebound: 2 wins
DH upgrade from Vidro to average: 3 wins
OF upgrade from Balentien/Reed to one of Gutierrez/Endy: 2.5 wins
SP upgrade from Batista and Dickey to more Bedard and better filler options: four wins

Some points of regression, too, obviously, but ten wins looks easy.

Btw, I just noticed HH sponsors the Mariners’ page at BRef. Ouch.

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Apr 3, 2009 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

wins

How many wins will a healthy/fit Millwood give the Rangers over the 9 he had last year? Same question for McCarthy? How many wins do you give the Rangers if they just have an average number of injuries to thier pitvhing staff? How many wins is the improved infield defense over last year? How many wins is Chris Davis worth over Broussard,Catalanotto and Shelton?

Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year

by RangerMad on Apr 3, 2009 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hmmm

Infield defense: maybe Young 1 win better at 3B than last year’s guys, and Elvis 1 to 1.5 wins better than Young? Elvis’ offense (or Vizquel’s) hurts compared to who played 3B last year, though.

Not sure how to address the injuries question. Try this article for expect rotation performance for the Rangers. Feel free to disagree with FIP/IP numbers used.

Chris Davis projects at a slightly above average hitter, so say 2 WAR overall? Last year’s guys were negative 2 WAR. So 4 wins. Except then you’re double counting Davis’ time last year, so maybe 3 WAR.

Bradley’s loss hurts big time, say 4 WAR.

http://baseballprojection.com/TEX2009p.htm
http://baseballprojection.com/TEX2009.htm
http://www.fangraphs.com/winss.aspx?team=Rangers&pos=all&stats=bat&qual=0&type=6&season=2008&month=0

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Apr 3, 2009 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

I hope that Davis is better than a league average hitter

I drafted him in the 5th round in the BoaB league.

vivaelbeñsheets

by vivaelpujols on Apr 3, 2009 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

I also pick the A's, and it has nothing to do with what General Managers I like.

If that were the case I’d pick the Rangers to win.

I’m a little surprised EVERYONE picks the A’s, but I don’t think there’s any problem with picking the A’s to win the division. And I think writing it off as “collective love of all things Billy Beane” might be a little needlessly small.

by philkid3 on Apr 3, 2009 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

I can't see the Astros in last

with their offensive core. The rest leaves something to be desired, but their rotation is actually passable if Oswalt and Rodriguez maintain/stay healthy and their bullpen is all right. So I just can’t see them being in last, barring a collapse.

by Daniel Berlyn on Apr 3, 2009 12:13 PM EDT reply actions  

yeah. the pirates pitching is awful. atrocious. putrid. i don't know if any of these are strong enough to describe it.

i mean olendorf? karstens? and what’s behind that schlock? good lord. if they win 60 they should count themselves lucky. maybe the orioles will give up more runs but that’s because they’re going to be the AL.

"If they had this s--- when i was playing, I would have been the best f------ shortstop who ever lived." - Oswaldo Guillen

by larry on Apr 3, 2009 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

What are your thoughts on Aramis Ramirez being undervalued, Harry?

Regurgitating what I read from a Fangraphs article, Ramirez had a career-high K% last year, as well as holding tune of steady decreases in ISO, OPS and SLG since 2005. The two things that really saved him from a mediocre season were pretty high deviations of his career BB% and FB%

I don’t know what to really make of it, but if Ramirez were to hit somewhere around .278/.340/.500 with his home runs in the mid-to-low 20s, I wouldn’t be surprised.

by NittanyCub on Apr 3, 2009 12:18 PM EDT reply actions  

Two reasons

I think that line is about right – but, (1) offensively, he’s one of the underrated corner guys in the NL. (2) His defense has improved to just below average, after a horrific 2006 (we’ll see how things change this year, though), to the point where its not a huge negative. The Cubs pay him a lower salary than he could’ve commanded elsewhere, and people still beat the crap out of the guy around here.

by Harry Pavlidis on Apr 3, 2009 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Was any of that related to the Hank Aaron award?

Or was it a silver slugger? It was voted on by fans. Could help explain some anti-Aramis sentiment

by mattybobo on Apr 4, 2009 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

How are the Rangers overrated?

Every single projection system seems to have them as a low 70 win team, you guys all have them at 4th place with a couple of 3rd place finishes. I just can’t figure out how anyone could say they are overrated.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Apr 3, 2009 12:23 PM EDT reply actions  

i am somewhat confused by this also

i dont think anyon is “counting” on or “picking” the rangers to win the west

do you think the farm system is overrated?

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.

by knockoutking on Apr 3, 2009 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm with this, too.

I honestly think Lone Star Ball is overrating the Rangers, but we shouldn’t count. Outside of that, I really don’t see where and how they’re one of the two most overrated teams.

Hell, people at Baseball Fever were talking about how they’d be lucky to win 65 games.

by philkid3 on Apr 3, 2009 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

And the folks who think they can compete in the west (other than Rangers fans). . .

. . . I think mostly think it’s a bad division and well within the range of the Rangers competing with good luck.

by philkid3 on Apr 3, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Rangers pitching improved last year

There FIP was actually under 5. With improved defense in the infield, I could see them surpirsing people.

vivaelbeñsheets

by vivaelpujols on Apr 3, 2009 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

I guess this is to me

I don’t know if I can back it up, but I seem to remember hearing a lot of chatter about how the Rangers had a good shot to win the AL West this season.

I think they’ve got a shot, but only because I’m with Sky in predicting a very small spread of wins in that division. I don’t think any team in the AL West is very good and with the Rangers, I think they need to demonstrate pitching before I believe it.

Unfair? Probably. And it means I’ll be a year late jumping on the bandwagon, but that’s where I am.

by Dan Turkenkopf on Apr 3, 2009 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Upon further review, you're correct

I don’t know where I got that in my head.

I apologize. The Rangers aren’t overrated, they just aren’t that good :-)

by Dan Turkenkopf on Apr 4, 2009 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

"The Rangers aren’t overrated, they just aren’t that good "

That’s right! Point for the homer Ranger fans!!!!

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Apr 4, 2009 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

stupid naysayer.

"If they had this s--- when i was playing, I would have been the best f------ shortstop who ever lived." - Oswaldo Guillen

by larry on Apr 3, 2009 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Question on CHONE

I am not sure if this is with all of the projection systems, but the park/league adjustment thing in CHONE works funny for the Rangers.

The pitchers are adversely affected by Park/League adjustments, for example:
Millwood is projected to have a 4.89 ERA in 2009, but 4.49 for neutral park/league
Padilla projects 4.91 ERA, but 4.49 for neutral park/league
McCarthy projects 4.67 / 4.30 ERA
Harrison: 5.23 / 4.88
Francisco: 3.39 / 3.09
CJ Wilson: 4.66/4.19

So a rough estimate gives that the park/league cost our pitchers on average 0.35 run/ 9 innings, which comes out to be about 56 runs over the whole season. In other words, our pitchers are projected to give up 56 more runs in an entire season because of park / league effects being more “hitter-friendly” than neutral. This number matches up reasonably well with the park factors floating around of about 107.

Now the hitters are a different story…
Josh Hamilton projects in CHONE a line of .290/.363/.513, but if adjusted to neutral park/league, his projected line is /.291/.367/.515
For Chris Davis: projected .265/.316/.492, but neutral park/league projects .264/.318/.483
Kinsler: .286/.359/.468 vs. .287/.363/.468
Young: .295/.351/.423 vs. .296/.354/.424
Salty: .253/.333/.404 vs. .254/.338/.406
Nelly Cruz: .271/.347/.495 vs. .272/.350/.497

In every case, the projected numbers for hitters are a bit worse than the neutral park/league projections, which means that our hitters are expected to do worse than playing in a neutral environment. I am not quite understanding this, why is it that both the pitchers AND the hitters on this team are projected to suffer from the park/league adjustments? I only checked the AL West teams, but Angels seem to suffer the same problem in the projections (both hitters and pitchers are projected to be worse than neutral park/league), while the projection for Oakland and Seattle works logically (hitters do worse, but pitchers better than neutral park). Is there a logical reason for this?

by Telegraph on Apr 3, 2009 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'll have a plate full of crow

ready to go for one of us

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Apr 3, 2009 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

as a question

so ellis doesnt have a gold glove…ok? its a GOLD GLOVE, its not like its based on actually, ya know, playing really good defense (see young, michael and palmerio, raffy in recent years)…

anyway i fail to see how a player who is probably the 3rd best 2b in his division (kinsler/kendrick) is really underrated

also, who underrates pujols? …other than you of course?

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.

by knockoutking on Apr 3, 2009 3:44 PM EDT reply actions  

The original question of over/undervalued was presented to me this way:

10. Overvalued Player (measured by biggest difference between salary and WAR, min 6 years service time)
11. Undervalued Player (same criteria)

Overvalued explains my picks fine, but undervalued actually works both ways I think. Mark Ellis is a 3-4 WAR player paid like a 1 WAR one. He is also miles ahead of Howie Kendrick, because staying healthy is likely a skill (may be one that’s undervalued) and Kendrick can’t do that. He also can’t seem to do much of anything else either btw, besides hit singles it seems.

Pujols is a case of undervaluing the MVP, which maybe I’ll expand upon in a post later. Basically, and maybe I should consult pizza cutter on this sometime since he actually has education in this field, I think often when people are in the midst of watching a player play and he wins the MVP, we think damn he’s pretty good, but we fail to realize just what kind of greatness we’re watching until years later. I’m a fairly young’un so my memories of early 01-04 Bonds are kind of hazy, but I don’t think people at the time (besides zomg HR record!) realized how much of a monster he was then. I mean the guy averaged like 10 hitting WAR per season for that stretch.

Pujols is the same thing right now, everyone realizes, “damn, Albert is awesome, I’m watching the best player in baseball right now” but I think few think “damn, Albert is awesome, I’m watching maybe a top 10 baseball player of all time right now”. He’s 39th on the WAR leader board (since ‘55) after only 8 seasons!!! This is why he’s underrated, and really he’s quite undevalued too (a 7-8 WAR player being paid like a 3 WAR one).

Can't get enough of the Oakland A's? Visit Oaktown Awesomer's. For further statistical analysis, Beyond the Box Score.

by iamawesomer on Apr 3, 2009 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

He is also undervalued by the media

They didn’t give him the Gold Glove even though he was about 15 runs better than the winner. He was in a dogfight for the MVP, even though he nearly tripled the WAR of the second place finisher. He is the best player in the game by a pretty large margin, and unlike other guys he doesn’t come with baggage. Yet, he still isn’t the face of baseball. Guys like Jeter, Howard and Ortiz are still more popular.

vivaelbeñsheets

by vivaelpujols on Apr 3, 2009 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

gold gloves are nearly worthless

look at last year, mcclouth and young – or when guys like jeter and palmerio won it

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.

by knockoutking on Apr 3, 2009 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

I definitely put Ellis over Kendrick. So I think you underrate him. ;)

And I also definitely think people from the media to baseball fever to every other corner of fan discussion underrate Pujols.

by philkid3 on Apr 3, 2009 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Honestly,

you can make a strong case that Ellis is the best 2nd baseman in that division. I mean, he was worth over 3 WAR last year despite missing 2 months, and with an offensive regression from Kinsler, both could end up pretty close in overall value. And really, Kendrick might not even be better than Jose Lopez.

by joeiz on Apr 3, 2009 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly.
anyway i fail to see how a player who is probably the 3rd best 2b in his division (kinsler/kendrick) is really underrated

WAR the past three years, thanks to Ellis’ excellent glove and pitcher friendly ballpark suppressing his numbers, and Kinsler’s poor glove and his ballpark helping his numbers:

Ellis: 1.7, 3.8, 3.1, 8.6 total
Kinsler: 1.1, 1.7, 4.5, 7.3 total

Now, I realize most recent seasons should be weighted more and Kinsler’s age is more helpful, but Kinsler isn’t really that far ahead of Ellis for a 2008 projection. As an example, CHONE has Ellis projected at +0 runs above average offensively and +15 runs at second over a full season, while Kinsler is at +12 and -3. Whoa, 6 run advantage to Ellis. Now, I’ll give Kinsler some more credit for being healthier, but still.

Kendrick? Seriously?

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Apr 3, 2009 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Regarding Kendrick

It’’s hard to be that good when your batting average is basically the same as you OBP.

vivaelbeñsheets

by vivaelpujols on Apr 3, 2009 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

You take Ellis this year and I'll take Kinsler

I feel pretty comfortable with my pick

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Apr 4, 2009 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Here is my homerific projection

AL East: Sawx
AL Central: Indians
AL West: A’s
WC: Rays

NL East: Mets
NL Central: Cubs
NL West: Dodgers
WC: Cardinals

NL MVP: Mang
NL Cy Young: Santana
NL ROY: Jason Motte
NL MOY: Tony La Russa

AL MVP: Matt Holiday
AL Cy Young: Josh Beckett
AL ROY: Matt Weiters
AL MOY: the guy from the A’s

WS: Cardinals over Red Sox

vivaelbeñsheets

by vivaelpujols on Apr 3, 2009 3:47 PM EDT reply actions  

I am suprised so many of you have David Wright winning the MVP

I expect him to have a down year compared to last season

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on Apr 3, 2009 4:47 PM EDT reply actions  

yeah but the Mets are probably going to win a lot of games next year

and we all know how much the BBWAA values team success.

vivaelbeñsheets

by vivaelpujols on Apr 3, 2009 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

That was my logic last season for preseason picking Wright for MVP

Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all

If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.

by baetown415 on Apr 4, 2009 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah

David Wright is a beast. I think that I should change my MVP pick to him. I have him at around a .410 wOBA and +defense at third. Couple with the fact that the Mets have a great lineup, so he should be able to rack up the counting stats, and they will probably win the division, he seems like the preseason favorite.

vivaelbeñsheets

by vivaelpujols on Apr 5, 2009 1:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

A couple comments after seeing everyone else's predictions

I thought I’d be going out on a limb a bit with my Braves and Cardinals picks. It appears not.

2 more heartless bastards besides myself I see, and one of them is a Cubs fan himself!!?!?!

I see everyone else thinks the two Easts are providing the wild cards, though which teams vary a bit.

The A’s love is much appreciated, although I don’t see why one of you didn’t have them going past the 1st round? They’re going to win it all baby

Can't get enough of the Oakland A's? Visit Oaktown Awesomer's. For further statistical analysis, Beyond the Box Score.

by iamawesomer on Apr 3, 2009 5:56 PM EDT reply actions  

My Giant Post of Probably Incorrect Predictions

AL East
Red Sox 96-66
Rays 95-67 (Wild Card)
Yankees 94-68
Blue Jays 75-87
Orioles 73-89

AL Central
Indians 88-74
Twins 81-81
Tigers 81-81
White Sox 76-86
Royals 71-91

AL West
Athletics 84-78
Angels 83-79
Rangers 76-86
Mariners 73-89

NL East
Phillies 88-74
Mets 87-75 (Wild Card)
Braves 85-77
Marlins 78-84
Nationals 73-89

NL Central
Cubs 90-72
Brewers 83-79
Cardinals 81-81
Reds 76-86
Astros 75-77
Pirates 68-94

NL West
Dodgers 86-76
Diamondbacks 83-79
Rockies 80-82
Giants 79-83
Padres 70-92

Divisional Playoffs
Boston over Oakland in 3
Tampa Bay over Cleveland in 4
Chicago over New York in 5
Philadelphia over Los Angeles in 5

Championship Game
Tampa Bay over Boston in 7
Chicago over Philadelphia in 6

World Series
Tampa Bay over Chicago in 6

by philkid3 on Apr 3, 2009 6:01 PM EDT reply actions  

Good work, guys.

I’m a Rangers fan and we don’t have a very good team this year.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Apr 3, 2009 11:48 PM EDT reply actions  

I think the problem here, is that we don't have any way of showing how close some of these picks are.

The Rangers, for instance, might finish in fourth, but it won’t be by the same margin that the NLC fourth central finisher.

by R.J. Anderson on Apr 4, 2009 12:02 PM EDT reply actions  

The blue jays are actually a savvy pick for al east if the young arms respond (CAN U SAY TAMPA?)). The plus is they have better offense than last year with a healthy Hill, Travis Snider, and hopefully a full season from Wells and better years from Rolen and Rios. The blue jays were 51-37 under cito gaston (93-69 over a whole season and given SIs proven perfectly symmetrical incompetence and their prediction of 69-93 for jays seems like 93-69 looks good again ) with basically less offense than this year and the same pitching as this year except for burnett. The young arms have a REAL chance to do as well as his 4.01 era by mid season. Cito is underrated manger with a ton to prove as only black skipper with two world series rings and never rehired again. As good as Joe Torre or better but because he was black rationalization was that he had great teams (Torre didnt" ? wat happened the last 6 years you were there Joe? Yankees spent a lot more than bjs in those years) There is major competition for the last 2-3 pitching spots if some young guns falter on bjs and they will still have best bullpen in baseball. Yankees should be 5 games better…maybe ….but the division is really a toss up. Texeria and CC should more than offset ARODS problems but Burnett love overdue for elbow problems Boston and Tampa have not really improved. Penny may help Sox but there are many holes (lowrie ortiz varitek wakefield and lowell for sure)and they are aging. Tampa will still compete very well but they havent improved much on the field (can you say Detroits young pitching guns that looked invincible for a decade 3 years ago)and keeping last years intensity may be hard with young team. You get can 50-1 odds vs bjs making playoffs. Bet a few hundred bucks if u have to take a flyer on and put a down payment on a house as the eastern elite will give u the sucker bet as they love to drink the Kool aid. Better than giving your money to Bernie Madoff!!!

by nokoolaid on Apr 5, 2009 12:12 PM EDT reply actions  

just a small suggestion

but dont call the blue jays the bjs lol

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.

by knockoutking on Apr 5, 2009 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dude, paragraphs.

And this really isn’t true at all:

but the division is really a toss up. Texeria and CC should more than offset ARODS problems but Burnett love overdue for elbow problems Boston and Tampa have not really improved

Boston added Smoltz, Penny, and a few relievers to perhaps the best constructed team in baseball.
Tampa added Joyce, Burrell, a few relievers, and got rid of Edwin Jackson.

You know why they “have not really improved”? Because they were both really, really good to begin with.

by R.J. Anderson on Apr 5, 2009 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

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