Oh, Ohlendorf!

by erik on Apr 21, 2009 11:00 AM EDT

Xavier Nady is likely out for the year. Damaso Marte is sporting an ERA of 21.00. Meanwhile, in Pittsburgh, Ross Ohlendorf threw seven innings of 2-hit ball against one of the hottest hitting teams in baseball. Life is grand for Yankee fans.

Some PITCHf/x graphs from Ohlendorf's start last night--

Ohlendorf is at his best when he keeps the ball down and he did an exceptional job of that last night. He hit both sides of the zone with his fastball and painted the corners. He missed on a few sliders perhaps in hopes of getting batters to chase, but only got three swinging strikes on the pitch.

Spin direction is simply the direction in which the pitcher spins the ball when he releases a pitch and can be a good way to classify pitches. Ohlendorf is mostly straightforward, you can easily pick out the fastball, change and slider. He does throw a four-seam fastball and also two-seamer that pitch f/x didn't classify quite right at times, which we'll get to on the next graph here...

You can see there is certainly some sink to his fastball. Pitch f/x only classified three, so I just lumped them altogether with his fastball. You can see he threw a few of the straighter four-seamers but mostly relied heavily on the sinker, which was his bread and butter last night.

	Speed	x	z
Fastball	90.4	-7.16	6.07
Slider	80.4	2.86	-0.27
Change	81.2	-8.79	6.36

Finally, there's his a look at his average velo along with the average movement per inches on both planes on his pitches. Out of the bullpen Ohlendorf was known to throw as hard as 96, but all night he topped out at 93 and threw nine fastballs under 89 MPH. Ohlendorf thrived off of control in the minors, but also been known to get into trouble with walks in the big leagues, so perhaps he's traded some velocity for some control. He still has some "reach back" velocity when he needs it.

There is nothing super-special grabs your attention about Ohlendorf, but at least for right now, I think Yankee fans would be more than glad to have him back. If he can continue to throw strikes with his sinker, he'll be a nice, low-cost member of Pittsburgh's rotation.

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Looks like most of his fastballs are sinkers

based on the spin axis.

by Harry Pavlidis on Apr 21, 2009 11:07 AM EDT reply actions

Please say more

I’m a PitchFX junkie and want to learn more. I believe I’ve got a grasp on the basics and more, but I’m confused by a couple things here that you (and Harry Pavlidis) seem to be grasping on sight.

“You can certainly see some sink on his fastball.”

I can? Is it that I should expect to see move “rise” or v-break on a fastball? Is there a “standard” of sorts then? Like, at 90mph average, v-break should be about 10 inches?

“You can see he threw a few of the straighter four-seamers but mostly relied heavily on the sinker, which was his bread and butter last night.”

I can? The way you wrote it makes me think the three 4-seamers were the three diamonds that are somewhat separated from the grouping, but that wouldn’t make sense given the low v-break of the one at the bottom of the grouping. Unless you’re saying that “sink” is shown by the horizontal movement, and that the “few” diamonds that show less than 5 inches horizontal break are the 4-seamers.

by azibuck on Apr 21, 2009 2:30 PM EDT reply actions

i'm still learning too

and Harry probably could do a better job and explaining this - it sounds like an oxymoron, but sinkers “tail” considerably more and have less rise than a four seam fastball. The average sinker comes in at about 90, has 7.6 horizontal break and rises 5 inches vertically. A 4-seamer averages at around 92, has just 5 inches of break and 9 inch vertical break.

His four-seamers were more likely the ones in the higher, right-most grouping while the sinkers were the lower pitches on the left.

Hope that helps. I’m still learning too, and appreciate the feedback.

Beyond the Boxscore

by erik on Apr 21, 2009 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions

Those average breaks are critical.

You can’t tell straight from the graph that the sinker sinks, because you need to compare the v-break to that of other pitches. I’m guessing it’s lower than a typical fastball. Those who play with pitch f/x a lot have the scales in their head, but those who don’t need to be given the context. It’s like picking up OPS after using AVG your whole life; you need someone to tell you what’s average, what’s good, and what’s really really good.

Are sinkers more effective against same handed hitters or opposite handed hitters? For same handed hitters, the extra tail would seem to jam the hitter, and if thrown low, the barrel of the bat will be below the hands, meaning the pitch will hit the bottom of the neck of the bat more often than the batter intends. Is that true?

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Apr 21, 2009 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions

I agree with you

maybe that knowledge is just assumed. All pitches sink, obviously, sinkers have less vertical “rise” than four-seamers, about 5-10 inches less.

As for your other other questions, I’m not really sure. Sounds good, but obviously it would be nice if that were to be quantified. I know I’m not the one capable of doing that.

Beyond the Boxscore

by erik on Apr 21, 2009 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions

Thank you both

I don’t know if what Sky said is true regarding jamming hitters, but it sounds intuitive that less rise and more jamming for same handed hitters would result in more ground balls.

I see what you mean with sinkers v. 4-seamers. I went and looked at the plots for Yates and Chavez who followed Ohlendorf,and they had more pop (rise) and less v-break.

by azibuck on Apr 21, 2009 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions

What's really interesting to me about sinkers is why hitters can't adjust.

I mean, sure, most fastballs stay straighter than a sinker, so a hitter isn’t quite used to it. But can they really not adjust. Is it really that hard to swing a bit lower when you know you’re facing a sinkerball pitcher? Hitters adapt to many different speeds, afterall. There’s got to be more than a sinker sinking.

Also, if my hypothesis about the tail creating GBs is true, do sinkerballs struggle against opposite handed hitters?

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Apr 21, 2009 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions

I think a sinker/cutter combo would be deadly

When Zambrano’s on, he throws both to both sides of the plate. Carlos, not Victor.

by Harry Pavlidis on Apr 21, 2009 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions

A great fastball versus a great sinker

two extreme comparisons, but hopefully this helps a little. Ubaldo Jimenez’s vert. and horizontal movement vs. Brandon Webb’s.

Beyond the Boxscore

by erik on Apr 21, 2009 4:31 PM EDT reply actions

Ubaldo has a huge range of breaks.

Might it really be two pitches? Harry…

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Apr 21, 2009 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions

It is

Ubaldo throws a four- and two-seam. Not all sinkers sink like Webb’s, but that’s mostly an arm angle thing.

by Harry Pavlidis on Apr 21, 2009 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions

Release Points and Comparisons

Like others I’m trying to understand and learn to appreciate the PitchFX data and I have a couple of questions.

Ohlendorf’s fastball and change-up look VERY similar except obviously for speed. Spin direction, movement are practically identical. First of all is this typical for most ML change-ups? Secondly how does his release point vary on the two pitches?

by realbrit70 on Apr 21, 2009 4:47 PM EDT reply actions

From my limited experience, yes, fastball and changeups have similar movement from spin.

However, changeups are going to actually move a lot more, because they’re falling over a longer time. It’s not like they follow the same trajectory, just slower.

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Apr 21, 2009 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions

You can find the release points for Ohly in the link below:

http://www.bucsdugout.com/2009/4/20/846761/ohlendorfs-pitch-f-x-vs-marlins#14491419

-Zach Sanders
MLB Notebook.com
Roto Rat.com

by mlbnotebook on Apr 21, 2009 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions

We Need A Wiki/Primer For All This

Explanations such as the ones asked, simple graphs tips, ways to make a directory, links, other stuff. I’m getting even more into all this.

A noob or n00b is someone that lacks intellegance or common sense, most people think that noob is a word used only in the online gaming world, but in reality it is becoming an ever popular word with teenage society.

a noob could be simply a level 100 running round shouting ‘’WTF DO I GO!?’’ or someone calling someone else a noob and then getting hit with a brick, anyone can call anyone a noob, but normally they are noobs themselves
-robert_d_wilfong

by cwhitman412 on Apr 21, 2009 8:21 PM EDT reply actions