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NL Central Farm System Values

On Monday we looked Victor Wang's fantastic research on the "hidden value of prospects", and applied his surplus values to the farm systems of the AL West. Here again are the surplus values for your review before we jump into the NL Central.*

Top 10 hitting prospects $32.5M
Top 11-25 hitters $22.3
Top 26-50 hitters $20.8
Top 51-75 hitters $12.6
Top 76-100 hitters $11.1
Top 10 pitching prospects $13.5
Top 11-25 pitchers $14.2
Top 26-50 pitchers $14.2
Top 51-75 pitchers $10.8
Top 76-100 pitchers $8.7
Grade B pitchers (as graded by Sickels)
$6.5
Grade B hitters $4.9
Grade C pitchers 22 or younger $1.9
Grade C pitchers 23 or older $1.3
Grade C hitters 22 or younger $0.62
Grade C hitters 23 or older $0.45

*I decreased the values thanks to an astute reader's observation. Last time they were $4.8M/WSAB -- what we would have expected if the FA market continued to grow by 10% -- but that's too high considering the chilly off-season market. Victor's research was published 14 months ago, times have changed. It's now set at $4.5M/WSAB, which is higher than current spending, but is on par with last year's free agent market.

Here's how the NL Central's farm systems fared:

15519482_medium

via www.editgrid.com

We'll start with the bad first.

  • Houston, $50.1M: The Astros had only one top 100 prospect: Jason Castro, their first round pick from last year. 1/4 of their farm system value is wrapped up in two high school pitchers that threw nearly all their innings in the Appy last year. Suffice to say this system stinks.
  • Chicago, $57.6M: The Cubs actually may be worse in terms of surplus value. The team placed just two prospects in BA's top 100, Josh Vitters and Jeff Samardzija. I included Samardzija but considered leaving him out, because "The Shark" signed a 5-year, $10M major league contract, so I'm not sure how much surplus value you can say he has. With Sean Marshall as the favorite for the Cubs' 5th starter job, Samardzija had better be one heck of a stopper coming out of the bullpen. Oh, and I have to scoff at these Jake Peavy to the Cubs rumors. What are they going to trade to get Peavy, exactly?
  • Pittsburgh, $76.9M: The Pirates have Pedro Alvarez,  Andrew McCutchen and Jose Tabata not much else. 3B Neil Walker has been in the top 100 three times but posted a .296 wOBA in AAA last year, and has now been downgraded to a C+ grade by Sickels. He's also now buried behind Andy LaRoche and Alvarez on the depth chart. Here's another nail for the Dave Littlefield, Pirate GM coffin: Brad Lincoln and Daniel Moskos combined value was less than 4% of the team's farm system value.
  • Cincy, $78.5M: One can very safely assume the Reds' farm system is down from last year after graduating just a ridiculously good class of Jay Bruce, Joey Votto, Edinson Volquez and Johnny Cueto. (Homer Bailey too, I guess). Their system still looks relatively healthy with Yonder Alonso, Todd Frazier leading the way and six B grade prospects that make up 55% of their farm system's total value. Consider me a Drew Stubbs believer, if for no other reason than his glove. The Reds also heavily invested in Latin America this past year, signing Juan Duran and Yorman Rodriguez to large bonuses. Jocketty has a lot to work with here, but hopefully he has learned his lesson after the Mulder trade.

Now to the cream of the NL Central crop, the Brewers ($99.7M) and the Cardinals ($98.7).

Rather than a lot more explanation, here's a couple of graphs illustrating distribution of for these two systems:

15519455_medium

15519460_medium

The Brewers a strong depth of hitting prospects; the Cardinals have a 1-2 punch of Colby Rasmus and Brett Wallace at the top. Both players should be permanently entrenched the Cardinal lineup by 2010, if not sooner.

Concluding, the Cubs had better win now while they are in "win now" mode. While they look to be in position to do so for the next few years, the Reds, Brewers and Cardinals are all pumping impressive talent up the pipeline, and the Pirates can't help but to slowly but surely improve under Neal Huntington's watch. As for Houston, well...things could be ugly for a while.

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Roster Scarcity

I was wondering if the limited number of roster spots on a Major league roster should effect the final value of prospects. For example the Cards found it difficult to trade an outfielder on the major league roster which impact their ability to capatalize on the value of Rasmus this year. For Rasmus this isn’t a huge deal he just starts a year later, but for a B-/C+ type fourth outfielder this could totally eliminate any value he has to the major league team, which by this calc is a million or so over the lifespan of the team control.

I can’t get a feeling that if we spread this out over many prospects if it is significant or not…

by BigJawnMize on Mar 5, 2009 9:31 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

interesting points

just to be clear, it’s their “surplus values”

Victor found the average B grade prospect produces X amount of WSAB. On the free agent market, on average, a player gets about paid $4.5M per one WSAB. The $ value assigned to a B grade hitter is $4.9M, which is the savings the team gets for fielding the cost-controlled player rather than paying a free agent for the same level of production.

Off the top of my head, in the Cardinal’s case and in many team’s case, you don’t see a lot of B and C grade prospects move in major deals, you typically see a Top 100 prospect + a B player or two or several C prospects. In order to get what the Cardinals hoped to accomplish (a solid closer, or maybe a SP) they were probably getting asked for too much than they were willing to part with. it doesn’t really change the prospect’s surplus value, it’s just that in order to pull of a big trade, you’ll need to give up something to get something, and that usually means a top 100 guy + .

Finally, B hitters and particularly C prospects in general just don’t have a whole ton of value to begin with, b/c the rates of attrition for such players are pretty high. It’s not worth it to a team to pull the trigger on a trade what they’re getting in return has such a high “bust” rate, unless it’s just a salary dump, as in the case of Khalil Greene.

by erik on Mar 5, 2009 10:13 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Impact probably minimal...

In looking at it again, I see that current surplus value is considerably less than what the projected value of a player would be if he made the team. A $450,000 surplus value is basically saying that it take 3 C+ prospect to equal a 4th outfielder.

I think that this thought leads to another line of exploration for someone, what is a front office’s ability to utilize its suprlus value of prospects? This might be the current skew of Moneyball, in that the B+ prospect is undervalued by major league teams. It seems to me, off the top of my head that Billy Bean has been collecting a bunch of these guys; playing them; and trading them for more B+ type prospects when he thinks they have max value. A different strategy might be the braves front office trading Salmatachia (sp?, gawd who knows) for Texeria (sp?) to get a year plus of him at reasonable value and then trading him to the Angels for more continuing value. The Braves are still utilizing the value of Salty as a prospcet a couple years after he has left the roster.

by BigJawnMize on Mar 5, 2009 10:51 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

i'd have to look closer, but if anything beane

has been sticking to the script, getting Top 100 talent in trades. They have 7 Top 100 players, 5 of which were acquired in trades.

But yeah, continuation value is something worth exploring, as we know (painfully) in the case of Dan Haren — he was traded for while he was cheap, and then traded again when he began to get expensive for yet another great pitching prospect (Brett Anderson) + others. I’m sure we’ll see some wish, rinse repeat once these players near free agency.

by erik on Mar 5, 2009 11:14 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah...

I was refering to Sickels ratings. Oakland didn’t have and A prospects on their list from what I can remember. Anderson topped it at a B+. That said they had a lot of B+ players.

by BigJawnMize on Mar 5, 2009 4:30 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Socialism must be back...

if we’re speaking of the value of ML prospecs in terms of ‘surplus value’ as manifested in dollars. I like the stats as a way to compare each teams’ farm system, and as statistical evindence that the Players’ Union can use next contract negotiation (Marx coined the phrase ‘surplus value’ to describe the labor-created value that capitalists keep for themselves in the form of profit). I just wish Wang would go the next step and rank each of ML teams based on the ‘rate of exploitation’- next logical step really.

by BustaCard on Mar 9, 2009 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Great post

It’s great to see the Cards having so much theoretical value in their system.

by Toddius on Mar 5, 2009 11:28 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

That’s just a bunch of relievers and 4th outfielders. Stop hyperventilating.

/Joe Strauss

by azruavatar on Mar 5, 2009 12:30 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah

just a bunch of overrated faberge’ eggs.

by erik on Mar 5, 2009 2:09 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

This is awesome

Can’t wait to see the rest.

Looks like McPhail needs to find some new trade partners…

Younger writers, more attuned to the use of the Internet than their older colleagues, may not have a problem with the disappearance of the books. But in past years they didn’t have the Internet as an alternative reference site. They apparently just didn’t feel the need for any information the books provided.

by CoachOfEarl on Mar 5, 2009 1:23 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Good stuff Erik

The only thing I would like to say is that I am with the Reds being worth 87.1 Million because I just can’t count Juan Duran and Yorman Rodriguez as C type prospects. They both were Top 10 guys in the Reds BA list and both signed for over 2 million bucks this past season. Plus I am a Reds homer lol. Great work though.

Is there going to be a 7th version of this post kind of running down all of the teams, maybe with just a chart going from Highest Value to Lowest Value?

by dougdirt on Mar 5, 2009 1:58 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

i had my own personal faves

like Bryan Anderson and Jaime Garcia that I wanted to bump up a grade myself.

i think C’s for Duran and Yorman are fair enough. For every Miggy its seems like there is a Joel Guzman.

by erik on Mar 5, 2009 2:12 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

True

One thing I thought about when you first put up the values of the differing players is taking BA, Sickels, Law and BP rankings and kind of taking a general ‘average’ of a prospect rating then applying similar values as listed.

by dougdirt on Mar 5, 2009 2:23 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Great stuff

Will you be doing this for the NL West as well?

by Brendan Scolari on Mar 5, 2009 2:09 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Spoiler alert

the Dodgers are not the best

vivaelbeñsheets

by vivaelpujols on Mar 5, 2009 5:47 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't expect them to be.

I’d be shocked if the Giants aren’t first.

by Brendan Scolari on Mar 6, 2009 1:47 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I think they'll be second

They can’t match the Giants top guys

by Brendan Scolari on Mar 7, 2009 11:56 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The Giants top guys are mostly pitchers

As we see from the chart, a good pitching prospect simply isn’t as good as a good hitting one.

vivaelbeñsheets

by vivaelpujols on Mar 8, 2009 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

here's a preview

if anyone checks back here. the NL West has mediocre farm systems. Giants have the best and it isn’t even close.

by erik on Mar 9, 2009 1:37 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That doesn't surprise me this season...

The Diamondbacks are in a complete rebuild of their farm, the Dodgers prospects are too low in the system to rank well and a lot of the Rockies best prospects are either downgraded for injury concerns or also too low. Padres prospects are packed into the corners where they have less value. The NL West will look a lot better when you do this again next season at this time.

by Rox Girl on Mar 14, 2009 9:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is this just looking at the current farm system?

It seems unfair to the Cubs, when they just graduated Soto to the bigs, and have Theriot, Marmol and Fontenot generating value through their cost-controlled years. Maybe it would be better to include the team’s cost-controlled players in the calculation, or average it over a 3-5 year window to capture those players.

Some people have 3 layers, like pie. Blog Blog Blog

by berselius on Mar 5, 2009 4:23 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Yes

This is just for those currently with their rookie status still intact as far as I understand it.

by dougdirt on Mar 5, 2009 5:23 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Erik - one note

I just looked at the spreadsheet that you linked to with the players – It appears you only went to the point in which the guys were listed on Sickels site, and he generally only did 20-22 guys per system. In the book he goes into the 30s with teams.

For example, the Reds in 2008 he listed 20 guys on his site, but then said they had 17 C prospects beyond that. This season he didn’t get into other C type guys, but I am sure in his book he did.

For some teams that have incredible depth – A’s, Rangers, Reds and Cardinals to name a few, only going through the 20 top guys may be cutting off 10-20 more players worth up to 25 million bucks (if they are for example mostly pitchers). Maybe something worth noting while doing this exercise.

by dougdirt on Mar 5, 2009 5:31 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

it would help if i had a copy of the book

i really need to order it in the near future. the way i see it is if they were not worth mentioning in the rankings, then it’s not of major importance to include them in this project. but it is certainly worth noting. the Cardinals have a lot of C guys I wanted to plug in.

by erik on Mar 6, 2009 3:18 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

you should note, however, that the rankings on his site are his "rough drafts" for the book.

sometimes it’s not that they weren’t worth mentioning it’s just that he missed someone or had incomplete information or what have you. of course, we are generally talking about low level guys. however, i hope you’re taking into account the grade adjustments he made to higher level prospects, too. which would all be in the book.

southsidesox.com - now the best place on the interwebs for chicago white sox analysis and discussion.

by larry on Mar 6, 2009 5:09 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

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