BtB's Readers' Worst Contracts Project
by Sky Kalkman on Mar 5, 2009 3:47 PM EST
330 comments
Tim Dierkes obviously hit a nerve with his post about the 45 worst contracts in MLB. In BtB's quest to tackle mainstream topics from a saber point of view, I'd like to create a similar list, with BtB readers determining the 25 worst contracts. Here's how I see the process working:
- You suggest the worst contracts in the comments of this post. Feel free to add commentary to persuade others.
- You Recommend comments to "second" the nominations you agree with.
- Assuming we get enough nominations, I'll take the top fifty by rec's and create a poll where you can pick your top ten. That should yield a good overall ranking.
I'm open to methodology suggestion, so throw them in the comments.
So, which players are signed to the worst contracts in MLB?
Update (five minutes after posting): To make things easier, let's use only current MLB contracts, name one contract per comment, and list the contract's value, length, and any other relevant information. Thanks.
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Barry Zito.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
by Sky Kalkman on Mar 4, 2009 3:27 PM EST reply actions 29 recs
8 recs?
probably 6 are from Giants fans…
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
Oh yeah
But not everyone gets reminded of it everyday…
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
eric byrnes.
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andruw jones.
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by larry on Mar 4, 2009 3:32 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
2/$36.2M, 2008-2009.
currently being paid the remainder of the $21M+ left to play for frisco or something.
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Let's see (with very rough dollar values)
Kyle Loshe 4/41
Carlos Silva 4/48
Kenji Johjima 3/24
Jarrod Washburn 9/36
Joel Pineiro 2/14
Mike Hamption 7/100
Chan Ho Park 7/100
Barry Zito 7/110
Francisco Cordero 4/48
Juan Pierre 5/50
GMJ 5/50
Carlos Lee 7/100
Raul Ibanez 3/30, loss of 1st pick
Alfonso Soriano 8/110
Matt Morris 4/32
Dimirti Young (2/whatever)
Adam Eaton 3/25
by JI on Mar 4, 2009 3:32 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
kind of need to make individual posts for each to make this work.
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that seems like you didn't actually read the post.
southsidesox.com - now the best place on the interwebs for chicago white sox analysis and discussion.
He's just pointing out that you didn't follow the rules
I don’t think any vitriol is intended.
by Brendan Scolari on Mar 4, 2009 3:40 PM EST up reply actions
guy seems to joke a lot with people who have no clue.
i remember getting lectured about this before, rays lover.
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I'm not even a Rays fan, I just play one.
by R.J. Anderson on Mar 4, 2009 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
you do a good job. longoria is the best eva.
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Each name gets posted once in a comment. Then "rec" those you agree with.
And how about we all just give each other a bit more benefit of the doubt around here? Thanks.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
and we should probably stick with current contracts
so hampton, park, morris (did i miss any?) are out.
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Yes, current contracts.
Should Andruw’s count? Can it count twice?
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
it's still being paid.
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scott linebrink.
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4/$19M, 2008-2011, NTC to boot.
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paul konerko
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by larry on Mar 4, 2009 3:33 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
5/$60M, 2006-2010
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Jeff Suppan
---
Juuuust a bit outside!!
http://www.rightfieldbleachers.com
by Jack Moore on Mar 4, 2009 3:34 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
Vernon Wells
Both Wells and Young strike me as utterly stupid because they were unforced – both players were under control, not FAs
by viktor06 on Mar 4, 2009 3:34 PM EST reply actions 6 recs
Surprised I’m the first person to rec this one.
"OBP is not a production number, and should not be used as something he achieved."
What was his first year of free agency?
Because they’re not exactly paying him big bucks in 2008, 2009, or, to a lesser extent 2010:
08:$0.5M, 09:$1.5M, 10:$12.5M, 11:$23M, 12:$21M, 13:$21M, 14:$21M
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
$126M over 7 years. He basically got Beltran money.
$25.5M signing bonus (paid in 3 $8.5M installments, March 1 2008-10)
Which makes it:
08:$9M, 09:$10M, 10:$21M, 11:$23M, 12:$21M, 13:$21M, 14:$21M
Gees the back end of that is $107M over 5 years that hasn’t even kicked in yet. This is gonna be ugly.
"OBP is not a production number, and should not be used as something he achieved."
# 3 year/$36M (2008-10)
* signed by Kansas City as a free agent 12/5/07
* 08:$12M, 09:$12M, 10:$12M
* award bonuses: $50,000 each for All Star, Silver Slugger, Gold Glove, LCS MVP, $0.1M each for WS MVP, MVP ($50,000 for 2nd-5th)
* perks: suite on road
by Jeff Zimmerman (TucsonRoyal) on Mar 4, 2009 3:49 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think it's that bad
but the suites push it over the top
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by Matt Klaassen on Mar 4, 2009 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
alfonso soriano
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by larry on Mar 4, 2009 3:37 PM EST reply actions 8 recs
8/$136M, 2007-2014
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the cubs have a whole slew of backloaded salaries, most going on far too long.
southsidesox.com - now the best place on the interwebs for chicago white sox analysis and discussion.
$111.125 already committed for 2010 for 8 players
Zambrano 17.875 SP
Soriano 18 OF
Ramirez 15.75 3B
Lee 13 1B
Dempster 12.5 SP
Lilly 12 SP
Fukudome 13 OF
Bradley 9 OF
So, no SS, 2B, C , or a single relief pitcher for over $111m next year. Have fun Cubs!
Dunno about middle infield, but they have a damn good C for $400K
Many years from now, when his name's recalled
Everyone will say, "He should have passed the ball"
-- Al Stewart, "Football Hero"
As Erik will show tomorrow, they have an awful farm system -- the worst in the NL Central if you don't count Jeff S.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
or the houston astros?
southsidesox.com - now the best place on the interwebs for chicago white sox analysis and discussion.
wow
for a second there I wondered why on earth I was being dragged into the conversation.
I’m a big Brewers fan, but I’m not exactly the face of the franchise :).
Also, cheese.
by Jeff Sackmann on Mar 4, 2009 4:56 PM EST up reply actions
does erik really not like josh vitters?
should be an interesting read.
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He uses the same methodology as the AL West thread from yesterday morning.
Basedon Baseball America and John Sickels’ ratings and Victor Wang’s work.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
okay. definitely will be interested to see how it's possible.
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3/47 2007-2009
The Dodgers knew he had a partially torn labrum but signed him anyway. Through two years of the deal he has one win.
by Brendan Scolari on Mar 4, 2009 3:45 PM EST up reply actions
I wish they had
Signed,
A lamenting Dodger fan
by Brendan Scolari on Mar 4, 2009 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
Shocked he has so few recs
People must think he’ll really turn things around in the next few years?
Vogt early, Vogt often.
curious what people think of todd helton's.
been good so far but the last three years could get real ugly (like last year and 2006 were).
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by larry on Mar 4, 2009 3:40 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I don't think its been so bad.
He’s been worth it so far.
by Brendan Scolari on Mar 4, 2009 3:43 PM EST up reply actions
sure, but how much of that is going to get sucked back in the next three years?
just wondering for discussion purposes. injuries, clear decline in skills…rockies on the hook for $57 million over the next three years (including the buyout of 2012). contract was worth $141M for 2003-2011 (not including the buyout, i think).
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Not saying its a good deal
but I don’t think it’s the worst contract in baseball.
by Brendan Scolari on Mar 4, 2009 3:51 PM EST up reply actions
i think we all know who holds that title.
i think the question is, do you think it’s one of the worst 25?
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I think what all future GMs/owners should realize from the Helton contract
is that even a young ultrastud shouldn’t be signed to such a long contract as a Jeter, Wells, Helton. But will we be looking down the road and saying how awful the Teixiera contract was? Because I’m not convinced Teixiera will provide more for the dollars he sucks down than Helton has and will, even if you include inflation. Of course, if Helton plays 50 games each of the next three years, it would be different, but I have faith.
by Daniel Berlyn on Mar 4, 2009 8:06 PM EST up reply actions
I've updated this thread with some important details:
Update (five minutes after posting): To make things easier, let’s use only current MLB contracts, name one contract per comment, and list the contract’s value, length, and any other relevant information. Thanks.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
In case you don't read quotes
List the players’ contract details, please. It’ll be helpful for others.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
torii hunter, 2008-2012, $90M
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by larry on Mar 4, 2009 3:42 PM EST reply actions 15 recs
Raul Ibanez 3 years/$31.5M (2009-11)
by Aaron Campeau on Mar 4, 2009 3:49 PM EST reply actions 14 recs
Yes, video footage as an argument should count as three recs.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
Maybe
except those clips are nearing “OMG JEter is so overrated he sux at defense!!1111” status
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by Matt Klaassen on Mar 4, 2009 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
That's my Facebook status
vivaelbeñsheets
by vivaelpujols on Mar 5, 2009 12:44 AM EST up reply actions
Alex Rodriguez 10 yr / $100000000000000000000000000000000
If the whole ’roids thing blows up even further.
SBN really needs to add a feature to put negative recs onto comments.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
we can't see it, though.
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Plus
I don’t want to flag it since it’s not inappropriate, I just want it either hidden if enough users neg it or have it show -12 recs and make the comment red.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
I never flag comments anywhere but LL because I don't know who is reading them.
by Aaron Campeau on Mar 4, 2009 3:59 PM EST up reply actions
Warning people is better.
That way you can ensure Graham sees the .gif of Clement.
by R.J. Anderson on Mar 4, 2009 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
Hard to tell
Especially considering you’re a Red Sox fan and seem to have a real issue with big name players and steroids.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
I'm not anti-Rodriguez, I'm anti-MFY and cheaters.
And all players who use steroids should be suspended for a full season, not just the big guys. And if they won a ring while cheating, take away their ring, but not the team’s.
Steroids weren't illegal when he took them.
Tools Whore
That's a little too AOL for me, but I see the use here.
Flags are more for inappropriate content.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
Jorge Posada, perhaps?
Bringing you more-or-less replacement level analysis and commentary since sometime in 2008.
by Matt Klaassen on Mar 4, 2009 3:55 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Bud Selig Commissioner
- 3 years (2010-12)
* signed extension 1/17/08
- 3 years (2007-09)
* signed extension 8/04
* 2007 compensation: $17.5M
- 3 years (2004-06)
* signed extension 11/01
* 2006 compensation: $15.056M
o $14,515,071 base salary
o $ 400,900 in contributions to benefit plan
o $ 140,603 in expenses, personal fees
* 2005 compensation: $14.5M
o $6M base salary
o $6M bonus
o $2.5M expenses, personal fees
- 5 years (1999-2003)
* unanimously elected permanent commissioner 7/10/98
(assumed office 8/1/1998)
* reportedly received salary of at least $3 million annually
- 1992-1998
* acting commissioner as executive council chairman,
September 9, 1992 – July 31, 1998
* 1998 compensation:$2.5 million
* 1993 compensation: $1 million
* replaced Fay Vincent, who had earned a salary of $650,000
by Jeff Zimmerman (TucsonRoyal) on Mar 4, 2009 3:56 PM EST reply actions 32 recs
I wish I could rec more than once
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by Matt Klaassen on Mar 4, 2009 3:57 PM EST up reply actions
A.J. Burnett, Yankees
I know no one will vote for this one yet, but the guy can’t stay healthy and won’t be that great for the Yanks, I think.
On another note, too bad this is current contracts, because Carl Pavano has to rank up somewhere near the top. Terrible in hindsight, and terrible in foresight.
"If Bowden was a general contractor, he'd build houses with nine bedrooms, six garages, no bathrooms, and half a roof."
by DyeLongJustice on Mar 4, 2009 3:57 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Juan Pierre
5/$44
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Mar 4, 2009 3:58 PM EST reply actions 24 recs
Scary thought
How many players in this thread were pursued or signed by the Giants?
Zito
Pierre
GMJ
Carlos Lee
Rowand hasn’t been mentioned yet, but there’s a decent chance he will. I might have missed some, not sure.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
He’s done pretty solid work over the last year. Each day the “Magowan was driving the crazy train” believers gain more credibility.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
What?
That makes no sense and has nothing to do with what Sabean has done over the last year.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
he's gotta get some kudos for their young talent / farm system.
southsidesox.com - now the best place on the interwebs for chicago white sox analysis and discussion.
Not in the last year, and no, he didn’t really draft him anyways. The GM might give direction in the draft, especially in the first couple rounds, but ultimately the scouting director is in charge of the draft.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
I meant he was getting more cred overall.
Hindsight. And he probably had to approve the #10 pick being used on a pitcher with mechanics that were thought to be incredibly dangerous.
I would imagine, in general, that GMs do have to sign off on the first pick. However, I would be hesitant to give him credit for picking Lincecum.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
Holy shit
You and larry are arguing retarded semantics here.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
I gave him credit
Just no where near as much as the scouting director (and the rest of the scouting staff).
The GM might give direction in the draft, especially in the first couple rounds, but ultimately the scouting director is in charge of the draft.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
be sure to apply that same reasoning to player signings.
it’s not sabean’s fault he signed barry zito. it’s barry zito’s fault that he sucks. he’s in charge of pitching the games.
identifying talent in front office personnel is important, just like it is in identifying major league player talent.
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No shit
He gets credit for putting someone capable in that position. The person he puts there gets credit for the good decisions they make.
This is such a stupid point you’re arguing.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
settle down there, slugger.
me having a different viewpoint than you doesn’t make that stupid or retarded.
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Hey
We had this same exact argument on another post.
vivaelbeñsheets
by vivaelpujols on Mar 4, 2009 11:21 PM EST up reply actions
and who hired the scouting director?
having deja vu here.
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That too.
That could have been the prez or owner though. Not to familiar with how the business management part of baseball works – above player contracts, that is.
pretty sure sabean has control of his front office personnel.
i doubt anyone would stay in the job as long as he has if he didn’t.
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Yeah, that’s fine. It doesn’t mean Sabean deserves credit for the pick.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
but if he hired the wrong guy who fucked up with pick, whose fault would that be?
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The guy who made the pick would get most of the blame, assuming the GM did his due diligence in hiring him to his position.
Look GMs get way too much credit for drafts and farm systems, that’s the main take away here.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
okay. but do you know how sabean operates?
i actually don’t. i know the GM for my team actually goes out and personally scouts the top potential picks (at least since he figured out that the guys he had hired prior to 2007 to do the job were fucking it up royally). i’m sure these players get identified by his employees. but i have to give credit to kenny williams for picking poreda and beckham in the last couple drafts (and re-vamping the philosophy). and i also have to give him demerits for letting someone tell him picking lance broadway and kyle mcculloch was a good idea. and not investing in latin american talent, like sabean/giants have.
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when you start getting close to this --------------------------------------------------------->
it’s probably time for us all to give up.
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If Sabean doesn't get credit for Lincecum, or any other prospects,
then you can’t fault him for the Zito contract, either, because that was probably the owner’s fault, then. You can’t play it both ways.
by Daniel Berlyn on Mar 4, 2009 8:12 PM EST up reply actions
Zito may very well have been because of Magowan, there are plenty of people who believe that, but you’re missing who has primary responsibility in the different facets of running a team. The GM is typically the primary decision maker on FA decisions and not on the draft.
Is this only difficult for White Sox fans to understand since Kenny recently started dictating the draft (at least the beginning)? That isn’t the norm.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
which GMs don't do that?
apparently sabean. seems to me that the norm is having the GMs heaviliy involved in the draft, especially early.
southsidesox.com - now the best place on the interwebs for chicago white sox analysis and discussion.
Everything I can remember reading on the subject emphasizes that the GM is typically much less responsible for the draft than another person in the organization (scouting director, etc.).
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
Yes, I've been somewhat impressed by Sabean recently.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
Chris Carpenter
5/$63.5
Only dumb because the extension was given with 2 years left on the existing contract.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Mar 4, 2009 3:59 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
Just to add to my explanation:
Going into the 2007 season, Carpenter had a contract for $7M with a team option for 2008 for $8M. They willingly threw that out to sign him to the above deal, increasing his 2007 and 2008 salary in the process to $8.5M and $10.5M. Stupid idea with a pitcher, in my mind.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
Yeah, it’s even weirder when you consider that they knew Carpenter had an injury history. His torn labrum from his time with Toronto is the whole reason that landed him in the first place. I would have exercised each of his options before even thinking about another deal.
Are we gong for sheer $ amount of overpay
a la Tango’s real estate analogies, or percentage of overpay.
Because Kyle Farnsworth’s is pretty horrible, if not that big.
(TWSS)
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i say go with what you want. everyone has an idea of what is bad/worst. point of a community list would be to "blend" all those together into one.
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I agree.
Feel free to lobby for an interpretation, though.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
I like go for the franchise crippling deals, myself. Farns is a bad sign, but it’s not going to cripple the Royals.
true.
The Dayton Moore contract might need to be added to the list, though.
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by Matt Klaassen on Mar 4, 2009 4:03 PM EST up reply actions
Carlos Lee 6/100M
He hasn’t been poor thus far, but he’ll be 33 in June and not even halfway through the deal.
by R.J. Anderson on Mar 4, 2009 4:03 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
as long as he doesn't decline one bit, they'll be fine!
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by Matt Klaassen on Mar 4, 2009 4:04 PM EST up reply actions
He plays in MinuteMaid
Hell, Craig Biggio jacked 20 homers with that short left field porch when he was in his late 30’s. I could easily see Carlos padding his stats there and just barely being worth the contract.
vivaelbeñsheets
by vivaelpujols on Mar 4, 2009 10:51 PM EST up reply actions
Jarrod Washburn
not the worst, but pretty terrible. Almost over, but has certainly screwed the Ms for a while.
- 4 years/$37.5M (2006-09)
* signed by Seattle as a free agent 12/05
* 06:$7.45M, 07:$9.85M, 08:$9.85M, 09:$10.35M
* no-trade protection
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by Matt Klaassen on Mar 4, 2009 4:03 PM EST reply actions 6 recs
Danys Baez
3 years, 19 million dollars, and the Orioles sense of pride.
by math_geek on Mar 4, 2009 4:06 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
But he may come back as a starter!
SARCASM ALERT
Younger writers, more attuned to the use of the Internet than their older colleagues, may not have a problem with the disappearance of the books. But in past years they didn’t have the Internet as an alternative reference site. They apparently just didn’t feel the need for any information the books provided.
Damaso Marte
kind of a weird pick maybe, but 3 comparable lefties are struggling to get a guaranteed contract
aaron rowand 5/$60M, 2008-2012
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by larry on Mar 4, 2009 4:18 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
Kosuke Fukudome 4/$48M (3/$38M remaining)
Decent corner OF defense, but the hitting is quite poor. Most telling, by mid-June pitchers had figured him out and his hitting was genuinely awful after that. For the remainder of the season, his OBP was quite low and he hit with zero power. Even with his defense, if his hitting going forward is anywhere near what it was after mid-June 2008, he’ll be on the short list of the most overpaid players in the game.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Mar 4, 2009 4:27 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
the NY-JQ war opens up another front
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by Matt Klaassen on Mar 4, 2009 4:33 PM EST up reply actions
Billy Beane and Theo Epstein?
I keed….
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
J.D. Drew - 5/70, '07-'11
Guy cant even stay healthy
5 years/$70M (2007-11)
* signed by Boston as a free agent 1/07
* 07:$14M, 08:$14M, 09:$14M, 10:$14M, 11:$14M
* limited no-trade clause allowing Drew to block deals to 2 clubs
* $9M of 2011 salary will be deferred at 1% interest unless Drew plays 500 games from 2007 to 2010 or 375 games from 2008 to 2010
* Boston may opt out of either of final 2 seasons if Drew:
o spends 35 days on the disabled list in either 2009 or 2010 with injury related to pre-existing right shoulder condition, or
o finishes 2009 or 2010 season on the disabled list and cannot play outfield the following season
* award bonuses: $0.2M for MVP ($0.125M for placing 2nd, $0.1M for 3rd, $75,000 for 4th, $50,000 for 5th), $0.1M each for Gold Glove, Silver Slugger or WS MVP, $75,000 for LCS MVP, $50,000 for All Star selection
-Zach Sanders
MLB Notebook.com
It's not good, but...
4.0 WAR in 2008
1.3 WAR in 2007 (bad)
Previous seasons leading into the signing: 8.3, 3.0, 4.2
When it was signed, FA market was about $4MM per marginal win.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
interesting opt-outs in that contract.
southsidesox.com - now the best place on the interwebs for chicago white sox analysis and discussion.
Hadn't noticed those.
- Boston may opt out of either of final 2 seasons if Drew:
* spends 35 days on the disabled list in either 2009 or 2010 with injury related to pre-existing right shoulder condition, or
* finishes 2009 or 2010 season on the disabled list and cannot play outfield the following season
They let Boston out of complete collapses, but likely won’t be triggered.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
Well, Carlos Lee was better over the last two years, and he was included.
The salaries aren’t far off, unless you think the length will really kill the Stros.
by Daniel Berlyn on Mar 4, 2009 8:16 PM EST up reply actions
Lee's WAR from Fangraphs
2008: 3.4
2007: 3.1
He’s got the edge post contract so far, 6.5 to 5.3.
Three years leading up to contract:
4.8
1.6
2.5
Edge to Drew here, although some might argue all we care about is actual production.
And yes, two extra years at $17MM seems like a big waste of money.
Just throwing out the data…
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
8.3!!!
How was that trade for the Cards? They got 6 years Waino and Marquis and King, but I bet if they had Drew they would have won the WS.
vivaelbeñsheets
Aw man, come on
You already celebrated a WS ring in your life time :-(
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
Don't feel bad
You have Tim Lincecum
vivaelbeñsheets
by vivaelpujols on Mar 4, 2009 11:22 PM EST up reply actions
We're really not commenting on Tim, here.
People love baseball rumors and he finds them and posts them in one spot. Seems pretty brilliant, if not especially difficult (in a brainpower way, not an effort way). It’s ridiculously popular, so if you think it’s a bad project, you’re more commenting on his readers, not him.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
he's just jealous his blog doesn't make money.
southsidesox.com - now the best place on the interwebs for chicago white sox analysis and discussion.
Indeed
I would love to have that be my day job. He does good work, and I appreciate all he does. Just throwing a playful jab at him.
-Zach Sanders
MLB Notebook.com
Dontrelle Willis
3/29MM
I could be wrong though
by staplemaniac on Mar 4, 2009 5:42 PM EST reply actions 19 recs
you're not wrong.
southsidesox.com - now the best place on the interwebs for chicago white sox analysis and discussion.
Joe Morgan
$1 would be too much. I have literally turned on the radio and muted the TV when watching the Yankees play on ESPN. Joe might be switched from SNB (thank god), but might be given WNB instead.
Someone should put up a website
devoted to just how horrible he is
Younger writers, more attuned to the use of the Internet than their older colleagues, may not have a problem with the disappearance of the books. But in past years they didn’t have the Internet as an alternative reference site. They apparently just didn’t feel the need for any information the books provided.
Where have you been?
firejoemorgan.com
Confusion breeds success. If they don't know each other, opponents can't have strategy. GENIUS.
by Ozzie Montana on Mar 5, 2009 1:43 PM EST up reply actions
I am going to wager a guess that he was joking.
by Aaron Campeau on Mar 5, 2009 3:09 PM EST up reply actions
I'll take that action
Confusion breeds success. If they don't know each other, opponents can't have strategy. GENIUS.
by Ozzie Montana on Mar 6, 2009 2:37 PM EST up reply actions
You are correct sir
Younger writers, more attuned to the use of the Internet than their older colleagues, may not have a problem with the disappearance of the books. But in past years they didn’t have the Internet as an alternative reference site. They apparently just didn’t feel the need for any information the books provided.
OR
Bonds during his entire career? ZOMG GUYZ, HE NEVER BROUGHT A CHAMPIONSHIP TO ANY OF HIS TEAMS!!!
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
i know your joking
but minus 1000000000 gajillion points….most underpaid player ever. besides mark ellis.
"If Bowden was a general contractor, he'd build houses with nine bedrooms, six garages, no bathrooms, and half a roof."
by DyeLongJustice on Mar 4, 2009 8:27 PM EST up reply actions
Pujols
He signed a 7 year 100 million dollar contract in 2004. At his current pace, he will have more than doubled the value of that contract after it expires. Yeah, I was joking.
vivaelbeñsheets
by vivaelpujols on Mar 4, 2009 10:49 PM EST up reply actions
With posting fee, Daisuke Matsuzaka's a consideration.
$103MM for six years, or about $17MM per year.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
by Sky Kalkman on Mar 4, 2009 6:54 PM EST reply actions 6 recs
The way he pitches works against a batter when they make contact.
So when they hit the ball, very rarely is it going to be solid contact. Of course, it also means he walks guys like crazy, and can be REALLY annoying. If he doesn’t lower the walks, he’s gonna get in more trouble runs-wise.
He makes more than Roy Halladay. By a not insignificant margin.
by Aaron Campeau on Mar 5, 2009 5:56 PM EST up reply actions
Sure. But Matsuzaka is severely overpaid.
He’s a good enough pitcher, but he hasn’t been that high above average (according to tRA) in his first two years. I’m not questioning his talent, but he makes too much money.
by Aaron Campeau on Mar 5, 2009 6:00 PM EST up reply actions
Learning more English for better communication with coaches and catchers...
Along with continuing to adjust to American hitters. And if he starts using his stuff to get guys out instead of trying to get them swinging at crap, that’ll help too.
It’s just not that bad of a deal. It’s not good, but it’s not that bad.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
True, by FIP, he's been about a 3.5 WAR player per year. That's worth about $15MM
On the bad side, but not awful.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
Richie Sexson ('05-'08, so technically not valid)
I guess it doesn’t count since his contract ended in 2008, but that’s not too far in the past…
4/$50 was looking pretty ugly at the end there.
Kyle Farnsworth
I think it is discussed earlier, but 2 / $9.25 seems like a bad contract, especially when you are the Royals.
by Sliderule on Mar 4, 2009 7:43 PM EST reply actions 7 recs
It is only 9 million but this is probably the worst contract on the list
vivaelbeñsheets
by vivaelpujols on Mar 4, 2009 10:47 PM EST up reply actions
From Cot's:
- 2 year/$9.25M (2009-10), plus 2011 club option
* signed by Kansas City as a free agent 12/11/08
* 09:$4.25M, 10:$4.5M, 11:$5.25M club option ($0.5M buyout)
* may earn additional $0.75M annually in performance bonuses
Luis Castillo $25M over 4 years
"OBP is not a production number, and should not be used as something he achieved."
by VictorW on Mar 4, 2009 7:49 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
B.J. Ryan $47M over 5 years
Surprised this one didn’t make Dierkes’s list.
"OBP is not a production number, and should not be used as something he achieved."
by VictorW on Mar 4, 2009 7:51 PM EST reply actions 10 recs
to be fair
this contract wasn’t that horriblly concieved. Ryan is a good pitcher when healthy.
$47 million over five years for a relief pitcher is very rarely a good idea.
by Aaron Campeau on Mar 5, 2009 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
Ryan has beaten the 10 million dollar value mark four times in his career
It’s not a great contract, but still.
Ack, looked at the wrong chart
Ryan had been worth 10.6, 9.1, 10.8 (1st year with the Blue Jays) before he got injured.
10.6 what? RAR? Is that with leverage of any sort?
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=168&position=P
Value – Dollars
$10.6 million 2004
9.1 million 2005
10.8 million 2006
Then the cliff comes in 2007. 2006 was the first year of the contract.
In general, I hatge long-term, big money deals for relief pitchers.
Unless they’re Mariano Rivera.
by Aaron Campeau on Mar 5, 2009 5:52 PM EST up reply actions
Mike Lowell $37.5M over 3 years
"OBP is not a production number, and should not be used as something he achieved."
Eric Chavez, 6 years/$66M (2005-2010)
He was good for the first 2 years, then vanished.
by Andy Seiler on Mar 4, 2009 8:50 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
David Riske, 3 years/$13 million (2008-2010)
Yeah, he should have been paying the Brewers to pitch last year. Don’t expect much better.
by Andy Seiler on Mar 4, 2009 8:54 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
10 years/$189M (2001-10)
10 years/$189M (2001-10)
signed extension with Yankees 2/01 (avoided arbitration, $18.5M-$14.25M)
$16M signing bonus (paid in 16 $1M installments 1/30 & 6/30, 2001-08)
01:$11M, 02:$13M, 03:$14M, 04:$17M, 05:$18M, 06:$19M, 07-09:$20M/year, 10:$21M
no-trade clause
1 year/$10M (2000)
re-signed by Yankees 2/00 (avoided arbitration, $10.5M-$9.5M)
replaced tentative deal for 7 years/$118.5M (2000-06)
1 year/$5M (1999)
won arbitration with Yankees 2/99 ($5M-$3.2M)
1 year/$0.75M (1998)
renewed by Yankees 3/98
1 year/$0.55M (1997)
renewed by Yankees 3/97 (later given more than minimum renewal)
1 year/$0.13M (1996)
drafted 1992 (1-6)
$0.8M signing bonus (Kalamazoo Central High, Mich.)
agent: Casey Close
ML service: 13.043
by Markakis and Wieters 4 Life on Mar 4, 2009 9:02 PM EST reply actions
Manny Ramirez
Am I really the first person to say it?
Younger writers, more attuned to the use of the Internet than their older colleagues, may not have a problem with the disappearance of the books. But in past years they didn’t have the Internet as an alternative reference site. They apparently just didn’t feel the need for any information the books provided.
by CoachOfEarl on Mar 4, 2009 9:48 PM EST reply actions 6 recs
Wasn't official until an hour ago.
But yeah, 2/43 is ridiculous.
by Aaron Campeau on Mar 4, 2009 9:55 PM EST up reply actions
I'm beyond skeptical that he manages to be a six win player again next year.
by Aaron Campeau on Mar 4, 2009 11:19 PM EST up reply actions
He might
but it is unlikely unless his UZR really was affected that much by Fenway.
vivaelbeñsheets
by vivaelpujols on Mar 4, 2009 11:24 PM EST up reply actions
Gonna throw out
Jay Gibbons 4 years 21 million signed in 2006
by math_geek on Mar 4, 2009 10:04 PM EST reply actions 6 recs
Yeah, that's 21M wasted
Played 174 games, OPS+ 106,62
Violated Substance Policy
Tooled around in the IL, VWL
Still getting paid.
Not of the magnitude of the others, but still crappy.
Younger writers, more attuned to the use of the Internet than their older colleagues, may not have a problem with the disappearance of the books. But in past years they didn’t have the Internet as an alternative reference site. They apparently just didn’t feel the need for any information the books provided.
C.C. Sabathia
This is a totally serious suggestion. His contract calls for $161 million over a seven-year stretch in which PECOTA projects him to be worth only $76 million. That’s $85 million in dead money. You could not trade that contract without throwing in, minimally, $50 million.
There may be a case for A-Rod as well, but not as good of a case.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
Don’t be silly, of course it’s bad. If it’s not bad, then how come no other team was willing to come within $100 million of it?
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
Because no other team could afford it
A-Rod will be worth his contract by the time it is up. He is one of the best players of all time.
vivaelbeñsheets
by vivaelpujols on Mar 4, 2009 11:24 PM EST up reply actions
Your abject certainty really makes me realize how right you are.
The fact that he’s one of the best players of all time — and I agree that is a fact — doesn’t mean that it isn’t possible to overpay him.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
Sorry
I should have used real data. A-Rod was worth 6.2 WAR and around 29 million dollars last year. That came in a down year offensively and he missed some time. With inflation, If A-Rod can manage around 5 WAR for the rest of the contract, than he will have been worth it.
vivaelbeñsheets
by vivaelpujols on Mar 4, 2009 11:49 PM EST up reply actions
Giving superstars more than market value isn't overpaying.
A-Rod’s contract has paid him close to market value each year since signing it. It’s a huge amount of money, but he’s worth it.
by Aaron Campeau on Mar 5, 2009 12:16 AM EST up reply actions
the marginal value
is something your missing, a guy twice as good as a average player isn’t just worth twice as much. because you might only have 1-2 such player, so in practice, he’s more like worth 10-20 times as much.
Adrian Beltre!
I kid, I kid.
Is that the light at the end of the tunnel, or the headlights of an oncoming train?
Nick Punto
2 years/$8.5M (2009-10), plus 2011 club option
The low-hanging fruit seems to be gone, but thought this deserved a mention.
by Sliderule on Mar 5, 2009 12:34 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Miguel Batista
3 years/$25M (2007-09), and somewhere between 5-20 games blown in the 8th or 9th inning for the Mariners, depending on how long he’s their “closer.”
by Sliderule on Mar 5, 2009 12:41 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Angel Berroa
4 years/$11M (2005-08), plus 2009 club option
signed extension with Kansas City 5/04
05:$0.5M, 06:$2M, 07:$3.25M, 08:$4.75M, 09:$5.5M club option ($0.5M buyout)
performance bonuses: $0.1M each for 600 PAs & 700 PAs in 2007, $75,000 each for 600 PAs & 700 PAs in 2006
award bonuses: $0.1M each for MVP & WS MVP, $50,000 each for All Star, Gold Glove, Silver Slugger
DFA by Kansas City 6/6/07, sent outright to AAA
acquired by LA Dodgers in trade from KC 6/6/08 (KC responsible for all of 2008 salary and 2009 buyout)
contract purchased by LA Dodgers 6/7/08
LA Dodgers declined $5.5M 2009 option 10/20/08
non-tendered by LA Dodgers 12/12/08
———————————————————————————————————————————————————————————
I know that the time has passed and the # wasn’t that ridiculas. but signing came after the 04 season where he was a -13 WRAA player and only 2 year of service with all the red flags flying over the sky above him. it was truely a horrendous judgement that turned out even worse than predicted.
Willie Bloomquist
If we’re going 25 deep, he might deserve a mention. Not a huge magnitude mistake, but giving waiver wire bait this kind of money seems obscene to me.
2/3.1, could escalate to 3.7 on very reachable incentives.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on Mar 5, 2009 2:02 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
I actually agree completely, and I thoought about posting it myself.
Although a better way of doing it might be to tally up all of the similar signings Moore has made over the past year or two.
by Aaron Campeau on Mar 5, 2009 3:11 PM EST up reply actions
Kenji Johjima
8/24, with a perfectly good replacement already waiting in the wings.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on Mar 5, 2009 2:13 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
Dave Roberts
3/18, cumulative .1 WAR through the first two years after signing a guy who was an old role player to suddenly be a starting CF.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on Mar 5, 2009 2:19 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
Nomination are still coming in, so I'll keep this thread open for a while. FYI.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
Francisco Rodriguez
3/37 with a $17.5M option for a fourth year that will more than likely vest.
King of the bling come to lay down the evidence//Not George Bush, L-Millz be da president
by Sam Page on Mar 5, 2009 4:26 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
Kevin Millwood
5 years/$60M (2006-10)
$15M signing bonus (payable 2011-2015)
06:$6M, 07:$7.5M, 08:$8.5M, 09:$11M, 10:$12M
limited no-trade clause
club may void deal after 2009 unless Millwood has:
combined total of 540 IP 2007-09, or
combined total of 350 IP 2008-09, or
180 IP in 2009
club may elect to keep Millwood even if he fails to hit IP totals
deferred money allows Texas to compute annual average salary at $10.8M
you're going to have to explain this one.
southsidesox.com - now the best place on the interwebs for chicago white sox analysis and discussion.
Vincente Padilla
3 years/$33.75M (2007-09), plus 2010 club option
re-signed by Texas as a free agent 12/06
07:$9M, 08:$11M, 09:$12M, 10:$12M club option ($1.75M buyout)
$1M of 2007 & $0.5M of 2008 salary is advanced
Jack Wilson
3 years/$20.2M (2007-09), plus 2010 club option
signed extension with Pittsburgh 2/06
$0.6M signing bonus
07:$5.25M, 08:$6.5M, 09:$7.25M, 10:$8.4M club option ($0.6M buyout)
limited no-trade clause 2007-09, allowing Wilson to block deals to 6 clubs each season (no such no-trade protection in 2006)
may earn $0.3M in performance bonuses
Nope, I disagree with this one.
Wilson’s a shortstop with an above average glove and bad, but not completely awful, bat. Let’s assume 80% playing time:
+7.5 SS
+5 field
-15 bat
+22.5 rep
= 20 RAR
x 80% = 16 RAR or 1.6 WAR. At $4.5MM per win, that’s $7.5MM. And he’s earning slightly less. Sounds like the going rate to me, unless my estimate of his skills is off.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
Oh sure
When you use numbers it is worth it, but who the hell values players like that?
vivaelbeñsheets
People who hate freedom.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
People who hate America…. and the Giants
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
feel free to disagree, I still think it’s one of the worst.
Fielding metrics are still in their infancy (relatively-speaking), so I don’t entirely trust them. Considering his bat is so horrendous, he would have to be Gold Glove caliber every single year to justify that deal.
Nope, just +5, as I showed.
That’s the (ok, one of the) glory of WAR, actually. You don’t have to trust UZR or any fielding metric. Just plug in your opinion if you like.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
Hideki Matsui
May be unfair because of injuries.
- 4 years/$52M (2006-09)
* signed extension with Yankees 11/05
* 06:$13M, 07:$13M, 08:$13M, 09:$13M
* full no-trade clause
Chan. Ho. Park
5 years/$65M (2002-06)
acquired in trade 7/05, with Texas paying $2M of 2006 salary
02:$11M, 03:$12M, 04:$13M, 05:$14M, 06:$15M
$6M bonus or $5M buyout ($1.25M/year for 4 years) after 2002
signed as a free agent 12/01
I’ll reiterate. Chan Ho Park. 5 years. $65,000,000. 100,837,730,500 South-Korean Won
by lenred on Mar 5, 2009 5:11 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Francisco Cordero
- 4 years/$46M (2008-11), plus 2012 club option
* signed by Cincinnati as a free agent 11/28/07
* $0.5M signing bonus
* 08:$8.5M, 09:$12M, 10:$12M, 11:$12M, 12:$12M club option ($1M buyout)
* full no-trade clause 2008-09, limited no-trade clause thereafter
by math_geek on Mar 5, 2009 5:11 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Gary Sheffield
2 years/$28M (2008-09)
* agreed to 2- year extension with Detroit as part of trade from NY Yankees 11/06
* 07:$13M, 08:$14M, 09:$14M
* $12.5M deferred at 3% interest ($4.5M in 07, $4M in 08, $4M in 09)
* limited no-trade clause (may block deals to 10 clubs each season)
* award bonuses: $0.1M for MVP ($0.1M for placing 2nd, $50,000 for 3rd-5th), $0.1M for WS MVP, $75,000 for LCS MVP, $50,000 for All Star ($25,000 selection), $25,000 each for Gold Glove or Silver Slugger
by math_geek on Mar 5, 2009 5:19 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
One thing to think about, not that we're really going to clear it up.
Are people thinking of these as “worst contract when viewed at time of signing”, “worst contract based on all information we have, including performance in first year or two of contract”, or “worst contract from this point onward, ignoring previous performance”?
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
I think we're just making it up as we go along
I mean, when the Giants signed Barry Zito, did we all believe it was the worst contract in baseball?
Some contracts however (Danys Baez, Raul Ibanez come to mind) were awful as soon as they were signed.
But the problem is, if a player signs a contract he will in expectation live up to, and then gets injured and crashes and burns, is it really a bad contract? Or did the team that signed him just realize the low end of a good bet?
Uh, I think we were all on board with the Zito contract right away, no?
Right, good questions in your last paragraph. “worst contract” has a few different meanings.
I wasn’t saying we need to agree on what it means, I was just curious what definition others were using.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
worst contract based upon all information.
southsidesox.com - now the best place on the interwebs for chicago white sox analysis and discussion.
I would make an exception for unforseen injuries.
A previously productive player without an extensive injury history is a different ball of wax.
by Aaron Campeau on Mar 5, 2009 5:54 PM EST up reply actions
that would be part of "all information"
feel free to weight all the information however you want.
southsidesox.com - now the best place on the interwebs for chicago white sox analysis and discussion.
Ok, let's wrap this up by the end of today.
I’d encourage everyone to make one last pass through the list and rec any later additions.
I’ll aim to have the poll up and running on Monday.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
How are you guys intending to value catcher defense? And how will you deal with the year-to-year unreliability of fielding statistics? And aside from the wisdom of crowds idea, is there any accounting for off-the-field stuff here? And, why not just scrap this entire plan and create a formula for this list? (Last question probably comes off as some anti-stat swipe but I am seriously asking it, not trying to be a jerk).
This does not really strike me as tackling this topic from a saber point of view. I mean, if you’re confident in your valuations you can just compare that to what the player earned and that’s that. If you’re not confident in your valuations, isn’t this just another subjective list?
of course.
everything needs to have a subjective element to it. we can’t just look at stats and say that’s it. obvious example: two players at the same position sign for the same contract at the same time: 3/$30MM. difference between the players is that one is projected over that contract to produce 8 WAR, while the other will produce just 4 WAR. however, player one, who had no past injury history, blows out his knee in the first year of the contract and in the second year suffers another season ending injury on a collision at the plate and only produces 2.5 WAR over the course of his contract. player two does exactly what was expected of him.
which is the worst contract? at the time of signing, player two’s looked worse than player one’s. however, with hindsight, two freak injuries make player one’s look worse because he didn’t exceed the value player two achieved.
southsidesox.com - now the best place on the interwebs for chicago white sox analysis and discussion.
It's from the saber point of view in that most readers of this site are saber-slanted.
It’s completely and utterly (well, maybe only 90%) subjective, yes. It’s the thoughts of a bunch of saber-slanted people. I don’t expect the results to be any more convincing that your list, Tim. Just giving our readers an outlet for discussion.
I would like to create a list with a solidly objective methodology. Takes some time, though, and I’d ideally like to wait until Cots releases their information in a spreadsheet.
Did I address all your questions?
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
If I took my list, pared it to 25, and crowdsourced it to correct a handful of stupid decisions I made, we’d probably have the same list. Without me running it by saber-slanted people. But, I can see why this would just be fun for btb readers.
As someone who only reads btb occasionally, though, I’d love to see that latter list. Maybe I’m wrong but that’s the type of thing I look for from you guys: what I can’t do myself and can’t find on a non-saber site. If there is a formula that cranks out a worst contracts list, it will have some bad choices on it, and will point to flaws in the valuation that someone can try to correct.
Kind of like BP before they hired Kevin Goldstein – they cranked out a stat-based top prospect list. It had its issues, but the idea was novel. Would’ve loved to see that list refined year after year. Post-Goldstein, their list is better, but not unique from BA or Keith Law in its methodology.
You're right -- that's what we do around here. And we'll do it.
I probably can’t do it exactly how I’d like, but can probably get 75% of the way there.
One thing we’ve focused on in the recent past is building a community and not just making BtB a one-way street that’s all about the authors. Hence, this post, which has more comments than any I can remember.
Does BPro not do a PECOTA-based prospect list anymore? Should be easy for them to spit out.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
Makes sense. Not sure if BP does the PECOTA list, perhaps they do and it’s just overshadowed by Goldstein’s.
doesn't come out yet.
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