Beyond the Box Score: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Sports blogs for fans, by fans.
Around SBN: Cal RB Jahvid Best Seriously Injured, Carted Off Field

Shawn Estes and the Dodgers' LOOGY Experiment

Shawn Estes accepted an assignment to the Dodger's minor league camp, where he will attempt a conversion

"I'm going over there to pitch out of the bullpen," said Estes. "I'll pitch [on Tuesday], probably pitch on back-to-back days, then come back to the Major League club for the last week. I kind of like it; I'm kind of excited. It could be a new phase of my career."

Estes got his work today, and Rotoinfo had this note:

Shawn Estes, on a crash course to become a situational left-hander, relieved Schmidt and allowed two unearned runs on one hit in one inning.

Hmm, not a lot to go on.  I'll speculate instead.  Using PITCHf/x, of course.

Estes seems like an unlikely reliever.  A junkball lefty, Estes is mostly a sinker "and the  rest" pitcher.  His cutter did make a comeback in 2008, during his second stint with the Padres. 


#mphpfx_xpfx_zdegrpm
Change-Up (CH) 102 83.3 6.8 7.0 135.5 1,188.0
Curveball (CU) 73 73.5 -2.6 -5.5 153.1 648.8
Sinker (F2) 426 89.7 8.4 7.3 130.0 1,426.8
Fastball (F4) 96 89.9 5.6 10.0 149.6 1,464.5
Cutter (FC) 16 85.8 2.9 7.0 157.1 938.1

 

These three graphs break down Estes' pitch selection by start - the last two are split by LHH/RHH.

Estes01_medium

I broke the lines so you can easily see the May vs. September games.  The #'s in parantheses are the total # of pitches for that date.  In the next two charts, that number, and the rates, are isolated by batter hand.

Star-divide

Estes01l_medium

The LHH pitch counts range from 2 to 49, so these percentages are dicey.

Estes01r_medium

The cutter, rarely used, was oddly effective - it seemed to fool hitters quite a bit.  More on that in a bit.

Estes labored in 2008, falling behind hitters on over half their plate appearances (54%).  Not exactly a great characteristic for a relief pitcher.  The problem was there for all of his pitches - except the cutter.  Of which there were just 16, and only 4 thrown on a 0-0 count.

 

Estes02_medium
 

OK, so Estes fails one test, IMO - he falls behind too many hitters, both right- and left-handed (although the distribution across pitches is different).  Fine, but does he have an out pitch? His 50% GB rate isn't enough to get me excited - he needs to miss some bats, especially since he tends to fall behind.

Starting with righties, here are swing and whiff rates for Estes in 2008, by pitch type:

Estes05_medium

The curveball gets observed a lot, but sports the best whiff rate.  Estes' change also does well.  Neither are spectacular, but both are solid.

Estes04_medium

That lefty-vs-lefty change-up is effective. I'll give him that. 

Here's what Estes will go to on two-strike counts:

RHH Ball Strike Change Curve Sinker Fastball Cutter
20 0 2 0.100 0.000 0.700 0.200 0.000
33 1 2 0.061 0.394 0.333 0.152 0.061
37 2 2 0.162 0.108 0.568 0.135 0.027
27 3 2 0.148 0.037 0.741 0.037 0.037
LHH Ball Strike Change Curve Sinker Fastball Cutter
9 0 2 0.111 0.333 0.556 0.000 0.000
15 1 2 0.067 0.200 0.733 0.000 0.000
15 2 2 0.133 0.067 0.733 0.067 0.000
7 3 2 0.286 0.000 0.714 0.000 0.000

 

Why no 0-2 curves to righties?  Seems to break a pattern.  I should also note, there don't appear to be any actual 3rd strike change-ups to lefties by Estes in 2008, just to righties.  Is that really an out pitch?

So, Estes as a LOOGY.  I'm not so sure.  He's not someone you want to bring in with the bases jacked, that's for sure.  Maybe long relief, but a situational specialist sounds like a stretch.

0 recs  |  Comment 5 comments |

Story-email Email Printer Print

More from Beyond the Box Score

Speed Check - AFL vs. MLB

Nov 2009 by Harry Pavlidis - 4 comments

Comments

Display:

" I should also note, there don't appear to be any actual 3rd strike change-ups to lefties by Estes in 2008, just to righties."

Changeups are rarely thrown to same-handed players. So righty pitchers hardly ever throw changeups to righty hitters and lefty pitchers rarely throw changeups to lefty hitters.

Its tougher to catch up to a same handed pitcher as a hitter so throwing a changeup just makes it easier for the hitter. Where normally they may be late on a fastball with a changeup their bat is able to catch up. Also changeups break into same handed hitters, but an effective off-speed pitch breaks away from the hitter you’re facing. This is why sliders are more effective against same handed hitters and why pitchers with screwballs usually thow left-handed, that way the can use their breaking ball against righties. The exception is cutters, which are supposed to jam the hitter and this is best accomplished off of an opposite-handed hitter. That’s why Mariano Rivera is actually better versus lefties than righties.

by Brendan Scolari on Mar 25, 2009 3:32 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Generally, yes, but look closely

Estes is an exception – he throws plenty of changes to lefties, they’re just not effective in getting them out on strike 2.

by Harry Pavlidis on Mar 25, 2009 8:29 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Haha

My bad then. I just basically skimmed through and didn’t really look to closely at the graphs. Too much stuff about Shawn Estes.

Very nice article though.

by Brendan Scolari on Mar 25, 2009 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That cutter looks like he should get it out into the open,

but do the groupings suggest that he might not even be intentionally throwing a cutter? That percentage use seems low even for a show-me pitch.

Space.

It's a problem we face.

So we never go anywhere.

We just stay in one place.

by hazel on Mar 25, 2009 7:20 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Very good question

I wasn’t sure – they’re inconsistent, BIS think he threw 0 in 2008. But, I did some Googling, and Mike Fast also picked up a few cutters – he found 1 more than I did in 1 particular game.

by Harry Pavlidis on Mar 25, 2009 8:31 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

We use numbers and stuff.
Community Guidelines
Why be a member?
Start posting on Beyond the Box Score »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Small
PZR-based Win Values 2001-2006

Recent FanPosts

Small
The "30 parks on a budget" challenge
Sunflower_small
World Series Simulation, Game #6
Small
JT20 Dynasty League
E52205a2_small
New Look
Sth70021_small
Exploring Hit f/x, Albeit Badly
Redcap_small
Ricky Nolasco: 4 WAR or 1 WAR?
Redcap_small
Apparently I can't do park adjustments
Small
Which tells us more: The last 7 at bats or 7 at bats against this pitcher?
Sleepy_jeff_small
How Efficient and Effective Were the Rockies in 2009?

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

FanShots

Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.

Recent FanShots

The Mistake Lottery
On the Field, the Yankees Are The Team of the Decade. Off It? The Red Sox.
Tigers' all-time WAR leaders
Primer on Runs Created
How to improve basketball
LB Keith Bulluck uses a sabermetric analogy to explain the Titans' quarterback situation.
Alcides Escobar "abandoned his daughter before she was born"
UZR, Scouting, and the Fans
Not-So-Lousy Lineup Optimizer, Playoff Edition: New York Yankees

+ New FanShot All FanShots >

BtB on Twitter

Main Feed: @BtBScore

Tommy B: @tommy_bennett
Sky: @BtB_Sky
Dan: @dturkenk
Harry: @harrypav
Jinaz: @jinazreds
Jack: @jh_moore
Erik: @Erik_Manning
Tommy R: @trancel
Justin: @justinbopp

Subscribe to BtB via Email

Enter your email address:

Delivered by FeedBurner

Most Commented

Limes_125_small
Time To Move On
Aviles_small
Minnesota: Fielding TargetView Before & After JJ Hardy
Nando_small
A Complete and Lenghty List of Baseball-Related Things Miguel Olivo is Good At
770insig_small
Negative Team WAR - 2009 Edition
E52205a2_small
New Look

BtB Goes Social


Managers

Nando_small R.J. Anderson

Limes_125_small Sky Kalkman

E52205a2_small Tommy Bennett

Editors

Face_small Harry Pavlidis

Rawlings_baseball_bigger_small Dan Turkenkopf

770insig_small Jeff Zimmerman (TucsonRoyal)

Aviles_small Justin Bopp

Authors

Banny_small erik

Raysring1_small Tommy Rancel

Jinaz-reds-avatar_small JinAZ

Jmlogo_small Jack Moore

1753738656_110919ebe9_o_small vivaelpujols

1_small Graham

Baseball_small Mike Rogers

Redcap_small SFiercex4

Small Patrick Clark

Walter_album_small Walter Fulbright