BtB's "Ball On A Budget" Fantasy League
by Sky Kalkman on Feb 6, 2009 5:47 PM EST
71 comments
Do you like fantasy baseball? Do you like WAR? Do you like to one-up ESPN writers, even the ones you respect a little bit? Most importantly, do you like to ball on a budget?
If you answered yes to any of those questions, then think about joining BtB's inaugural WAR-based fantasy league, Ball On A Budget. The rules are simple*, and based off of ESPN's annual good idea.
- 12 team snake draft
- $60MM budget using actual MLB salaries
- 25-man roster, no subs, no transactions
- The only scoring category is WAR, as determined by Fangraphs.
We already have six people in the league, including R.J. Anderson, BtB alum Marc Normandin, Jason Collette of Fanball's OwnersEdge.com, John Franco of RotoJunkie fame, and readers Jeff (TucsonRoyal) and Jack (jhmoore). We need six more from our readership, so if you're interested, leave a comment below, and we'll pick six guys who are the most likely to be committed based on past contributions.
We'll announce the final league roster on Tuesday and the draft will start Friday the 13th (to give folks a chance to prepare) in a FanPost (so we can sticky it). We'll also create a separate thread for anyone to leave snarky comments about R.J. picking all Rays' players.
* Well the rules are simple, except for the ones that aren't. Read on for details:
Complete rules:
- 25-man rosters consisting of 13 offensive players (2 CA, 1B, 3B, 1B/3B, 2B, SS, 2B/SS, 4 OF, and a UT), six starters, and six relievers. LF/CF/RF are NOT separate positions.
- To qualify at a position, a player must have played it in at least 20 games in 2008, either in the majors or minors.
- PA limit of 6500 and IP limits of 1000 for starters and 500 for relievers. If any group exceeds those totals, the WAR for that group will be prorated down to the playing-time limit. This is key. You will likely fill out your team with cheap scrubs without a ton of playing time, concentrating money on the starting lineup.
- You have four hours to make a pick or else the next person can (and should) jump in. You may then make up your missed pick at any time. The hours between 9pm and 9am EST don't count towards the four-hour window (non-EST folks will likely sleep through part of the morning, but can stay more on top of things at night.)
- Salaries as listed by Cot's -- make sure to add in any signing bonus money.
- For arbitration players, we're using the midpoint of the two offers, unless there's a settlement by the time of the first pick.
- Unsigned free agents as of the first pick are ineligible to be drafted.
- After the draft, we'll be entering the teams in over at Fangraphs so WAR can be tracked throughout the season. I'll likely ask for updates periodically (monthly) in an EditGrid spreadsheet.
- Anything that these rules don't cover will be decided on by the secret Rules Committee that only Sky can communicate with.
If you see any glaring loopholes in the rules, please share.
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If you need a spot. . .
. . . I’ll fill it.
by philkid3 on Feb 6, 2009 6:00 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
out of curiousity
where do you get salary information on all these guys?
by math_geek on Feb 6, 2009 6:28 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Cot's
mlbcontracts.blogspot.com
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
by Sky Kalkman on Feb 6, 2009 6:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd love to take part
My comments here are limited, but I’m a moderator at Royals Review, so that should at least show some obsessive dedication. If I join a fanatasy league, I stay in to the (bitter) end.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Feb 6, 2009 7:40 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
One comment
If you are going by WAR, shouldn’t LF, RF and CF be separate positions since CF has a significantly different positional adjustment for WAR?
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Feb 6, 2009 7:42 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
It's not a big deal.
Because CFs’ fielding ratings are relative to other CFs. So if a guy switches between LF and CF, he’s going to get ~10 more runs of positional credit but lose ~10 runs of fielding credit. The 10=10 thing is less true at the extremes, as CF gets more opportunities than the corner sports: good fielders can come out looking better in CF and bad fielders can come out looking less bad in a corner spot.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
by Sky Kalkman on Feb 7, 2009 10:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’d like to participate
I'm spent, just can't rosterbate anymore.
by oldjacket on Feb 6, 2009 8:15 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
i'd be willing to give it a go
but if you’re full already, that’s cool.
I'll be the one overrating these Faberge' eggs, thank you very much!
Future Redbirds / PAH9
by erik on Feb 6, 2009 9:07 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
we should start a league over at VEB or FR
we’d be a quarter of the way there already…
Looks like they are full here, or I’d play.
still cannot accept that Rachael was Chani.
by SleepyCA on Feb 6, 2009 11:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd like to take a shot
I had an interview with Tom Tango about something like this.
http://www.rotosavants.com/2009/01/3-questions-with-tom-tango.html
Visit my site - http://www.rotosavants.com
by Dailyrotopickups on Feb 6, 2009 9:22 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I'd love to be in!
please oh please oh please
Sure, I’ll probably end up being the Steve Phillips, but someone has to be…
Bringing you more-or-less replacement level analysis and commentary since sometime in 2008.
by devil_fingers on Feb 6, 2009 9:30 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
btw, that doesn't mean I'm going to sexually harrass anyone....
Bringing you more-or-less replacement level analysis and commentary since sometime in 2008.
by devil_fingers on Feb 6, 2009 9:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This league is going to be teeming with Royals fans.
You better draft Soria early.
by Trey Hillman's Chin on Feb 7, 2009 8:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, don't worry, there's certainly a Royals' fan quota.
Which may or may not be zero. ; )
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
by Sky Kalkman on Feb 7, 2009 10:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I figured my (not defunct!) Marcels/CHONE spreadsheet would get me in
or my constant, igornant emails…
I’ll write less fewer of them if you let me in…
Bringing you more-or-less replacement level analysis and commentary since sometime in 2008.
by devil_fingers on Feb 7, 2009 12:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
fewer “ignorant” ones, too
Bringing you more-or-less replacement level analysis and commentary since sometime in 2008.
by devil_fingers on Feb 7, 2009 12:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yes, I have retained some
semblance of dignity, it’s just really hard to detect
Bringing you more-or-less replacement level analysis and commentary since sometime in 2008.
by devil_fingers on Feb 7, 2009 12:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'll help out
Longtime reader, first time chiming in.
There are definitely more qualified then me, but I thought I’d throw myself into the mix.
-Zach Sanders
http://www.mlbnotebook.com
by mlbnotebook on Feb 6, 2009 9:44 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I'd play
King of the bling come to lay down the evidence//Not George Bush, L-Millz be da president
by Sam Page on Feb 6, 2009 11:56 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Continue to sign up
We could also do 2 leagues.
by Jeff Zimmerman (TucsonRoyal) on Feb 7, 2009 12:14 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, not a bad idea.
Let’s see how this goes.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
by Sky Kalkman on Feb 7, 2009 10:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I would
But I don’t want to waste anyone’s* time or a spot for someone who’s going to REALLY be into it.
*xanthan excluded **
**kidding xanthan. You know I <3 you.
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
Your 2009 Opening Day starter at second base*: Eugenio Velez
*For the Fresno Grizzlies
by baetown415 on Feb 7, 2009 12:39 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
i want in
I’d love to be involved. I am familiar with the settings, have read the site for years, and think i’ll be a general asset to the league. Please consider me.
email: cavegravedave@gmail.com
by cavegravedave on Feb 7, 2009 7:11 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I'm interested
I’m sure there are more accomplished readers, but hey if there is a spot elft or a second league, i’m in.
by viktor06 on Feb 7, 2009 8:13 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Todd Zola of Mastersball is in, too.
Todd and I go back about five years, when I used the nickname “Kalk the Kalk” on the old Mastersball forum.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
by Sky Kalkman on Feb 7, 2009 10:22 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I would love to be in...
Even if you guys don’t know me well, this is something that appeals to me a lot
by Markakis and Wieters 4 Life on Feb 7, 2009 10:25 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
am in,
although it looks like the league is probably full. Sounds like a great idea.
by Adam Peterson on Feb 7, 2009 1:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't want to speak for Sky, but I'm pretty sure we're going to do two leagues.
With a playoff at the end.
by R.J. Anderson on Feb 7, 2009 2:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
With a few more people, two leagues are a lock.
I hate playoffs, and the scoring would be a bit obnoxious to compute, but I’ll hear both sides of the argument…
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
by Sky Kalkman on Feb 7, 2009 4:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You could always make the championship a drinking contest between the owner of each league's champion.
by acblue on Feb 7, 2009 5:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Would we need a playoff?
Just compare the two champs at the end and the highest WAR is the overall winner. This would be my preference, and it’s simple. I assume we’re splitting into two leagues primarily for draft purposes anyway.
by Adam Peterson on Feb 8, 2009 8:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
By the way
I was considering writing a pretty straightforward optimization algorithm to optimize overall WAR relative to cost. Now that there’s a league / draft, I should get on this and post the results after the draft…
by Adam Peterson on Feb 8, 2009 8:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We'd love to post a guest article on this.
Maybe we’ll ask participants to write brief (or not) write-ups of their plan of attack and a review of how it went…
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
by Sky Kalkman on Feb 8, 2009 3:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd like in if you've got the space.
Six spots. Aye me.
Space.
It's a problem we face.
So we never go anywhere.
We just stay in one place.
by hazel on Feb 7, 2009 4:45 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
league
serious,reliable,passionate about fantasy baseball………………..ready to start……..hope to hear from you………….brett
by slapnutz on Feb 7, 2009 6:09 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
RP vs SP
What is going to be the difference between the two?
by Jeff Zimmerman (TucsonRoyal) on Feb 8, 2009 12:14 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Well, Fangraphs separates out RP WAR and SP WAR.
So we have some options. Maybe just let people pick their 12 pitchers any way they want and let the IP maximums take care of overloading one or the other?
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
by Sky Kalkman on Feb 8, 2009 3:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Or let people put them in the "slots"
and they can only get credit for one or the other, if that makes sense
We have to make people take relievers, otherwise you have no incentive to take them at all, since even a crappy year from a starter like Brian Bannister in 2008 is better than a lot of decent middle relievers
Bringing you more-or-less replacement level analysis and commentary since sometime in 2008.
by devil_fingers on Feb 8, 2009 10:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, there's a 1000 IP max for starters.
So if you go all starters and rack up 1800 IP, your WAR total from starters will be pro-rated down by (1800-1000)/1000 = 80%. So once you’ve drafted starters that you think will throw 1000 IP (anywhere from 5 full-time studs to 8 125 IP guys), then drafting more starters makes no sense.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
by Sky Kalkman on Feb 9, 2009 10:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm totally in!
I’ve been a lurker, occasional commenter over at DRaysBay for over a year now and I love BtB’s stuff. I’ve also done fantasy for about 8 years now and while I’m not amazing, I spend way too much time on it and I’m always looking for better competition. I’ll definitely be committed. :-)
- Steve
"I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain't never been seen by this generation." - Satchel Paige
by Steve Slowinski on Feb 8, 2009 12:48 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Clarification on value for WAR?
Would we use the numbers under “Value Wins” on FanGraphs?
by Jeff Zimmerman (TucsonRoyal) on Feb 8, 2009 12:28 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Yes.
What are the other options?
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
by Sky Kalkman on Feb 8, 2009 3:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Consider my hat in the ring.
I may not be the most “qualified,” but I have a lot of those intangibles you look for in a fantasy baseball player – heart, hustle, and grit.
And no, I’m not David Eckstein.
by MatthewA on Feb 8, 2009 12:32 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Another lurker
Rarely post, but I’d love to join the league if there’s space. I’ll be honest, I’m not a terrific fantasy baseball player, but I am David Eckstein. (No. No I’m not.)
by yellomellojello on Feb 8, 2009 5:43 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
For the record, I think it would be great to have David Eckstein in the league.
Or any MLB player, manager, or GM. If anyone chats with Mark Shapiro in the next couple days, ask him if he wants in.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
by Sky Kalkman on Feb 8, 2009 6:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm pretty sure the Front Offices in Houston, KC, Philadelphia, and both LA teams have already had the WAR draft
Bringing you more-or-less replacement level analysis and commentary since sometime in 2008.
by devil_fingers on Feb 8, 2009 10:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
FYP
I’m pretty sure the Front Offices in Houston, KC, Philadelphia, and both LA teams have already had the WBR draft
by Jeff Zimmerman (TucsonRoyal) on Feb 9, 2009 10:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
There's been some talk over email that a master list of player salaries should be created.
It would make things easier and it would remove any chance of disagreement.
That being said, I don’t think such a list exists. Does anyone know of one? Is it reasonable to put one together?
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
by Sky Kalkman on Feb 9, 2009 11:48 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Yes and no.
I have just been making one as I go along from COTS, maybe once we set the leagues, we can each participant can take a team or two and do the salaries from COTS.
That being said, with 4 hours between picks and each round going to take ~1 to 2 days and 4 days to prep before it starts, it shouldn’t be that hard to look up the values. Quick and easy way is just to change the name in following Google search:
by Jeff Zimmerman (TucsonRoyal) on Feb 9, 2009 12:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i like the idea of a master list
makes it easier to put into excel and sort.
I’ve already got a salary spreadsheet for STL players, if it’ll help.
"If I'm right, it was a brilliant move, if I'm wrong, it was a crazy idea". -Mo
by SleepyCA on Feb 11, 2009 6:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I contacted Jeff over at Cots and he said a 2009 spreadsheet is planned...
… but it will be available “hopefully sometime during spring training”.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
by Sky Kalkman on Feb 11, 2009 10:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
questions
Is there a place to find the arbitration numbers that were submitted? since I am assuming that if there hasn’t been a settlement yet, that we need to use the average of the 2 numbers?
Also, is there a deadline by which contracts will be frozen? Suppose someone in arbitration signs a contract tomorrow. Or Friday.
Will this be the official post that all the comments will be in reference to?
Thanks!
Finally, any final word on a start date? Still Friday?
by jfranco77 on Feb 11, 2009 10:36 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
official salary list and bonus question
I think that’s a great idea. I would help out with a team or two, or whatever is needed.
Question about signing bonuses – I assume we just prorate them? So for example, Torii Hunter ’09 would be 17.5mil salary + 500k bonus (2.5mil bonus/5 years)?
- 5 years/$90M (2008-12)
* signed by Angels as a free agent 11/07
* $2.5M signing bonus
* 08:$16M, 09:$17.5M, 10:$18M, 11:$18M, 12:$18M
by jfranco77 on Feb 11, 2009 10:45 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I would apply the bonus when it was paid
Cot’s is pretty good about noting whether the signing bonus is spread over multiple years or as a single lump. For Torii, I believe it was a lump sum.
by Adam Peterson on Feb 11, 2009 12:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
another couple of contract questions
I think a single list of salaries is definitely the way to go here.
How about this one: (Mike Lamb)
- 1 year/$0.4M (2009)
* re-signed by Milwaukee 12/9/08, with Brewers paying $0.4M minimum and Minnesota responsible for $2.6M of $3M salary in previous deal
-I assume we’d use 3mil
Or this one: (Mike Cameron):
- 1 year/$7M (2008), plus 2009 club option
* signed as a free agent 1/11/08
* $1.25M signing bonus
* 08:$5M, 09:$10M club option ($0.75M buyout)
-I assume since ’09 was a club option that the bonus is NOT pro-rated to include 2009? or is it?
by jfranco77 on Feb 11, 2009 12:24 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
My thoughts.
Yes on $3MM, no on pro-rating bonus to 2009.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
by Sky Kalkman on Feb 11, 2009 1:19 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I'll announce the leagues by tomorrow morning and the drafts will start Monday.
Posting the same info on the front page.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
by Sky Kalkman on Feb 11, 2009 1:20 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Cots
I notice they are still missing a lot of players who would either be given a contract by their teams (pre-arbitration) or players who might be arb-eligible but haven’t settled yet.
by jfranco77 on Feb 11, 2009 2:36 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Anybody have a nice WAR spreadsheet for me?
Or anywhere I can download a spreadsheet which includes at least 2008 WAR? Anywhere? Anyone? Bueller?
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Feb 11, 2009 8:08 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
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