Graph of the Day: 2005 NL MVP Race

by Sky Kalkman on Feb 27, 2009 9:00 AM EST

No, the difference isn't statistically significant.

WAR data from Fangraphs.

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RAR?

What does RAR mean?

by thoran85 on Feb 27, 2009 9:30 AM EST reply actions

Runs Above Replacement = How many runs the player was above the replacement level. To get a quick WAR estimate, just dive the number by 10 to convert into wins.

Bay City Ball | Beyond the Box Score

by xanthan on Feb 27, 2009 9:49 AM EST up reply actions

dive = divide

Bay City Ball | Beyond the Box Score

by xanthan on Feb 27, 2009 9:52 AM EST up reply actions

i remember at the time i was going to gnash my

teeth and grab my torch and pitchforks if Jones won, as I figured gaudy RBI and HR totals shouldn’t win him the award. didn’t realize how close they really were to each other.

Future Redbirds I Beyond the Boxscore

by erik on Feb 27, 2009 9:55 AM EST reply actions

Same here

At the time, for some reason, I thought his defense was not the great asset people made it out to be. I sure was wrong about that.

by YankeeGoose on Mar 2, 2009 6:09 AM EST up reply actions

Note: With Fangraphs' updated UZR, Jones is ahead 87 to 77 RAR

(I really need to update my spreadsheet.)

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Feb 27, 2009 10:00 AM EST reply actions

he feel lied to.

southsidesox.com - now the best place on the interwebs for chicago white sox analysis and discussion.

by larry on Feb 27, 2009 10:05 AM EST up reply actions

Pujols' D

I didn’t realize/remember that Pujols’ defense was not spectacular in 2005. Man, he has worked pretty hard to become a great 1B over there.

Yep, every Hall of Famer did something unique. Mike Schmidt played with his hat sideways. Roberto Clemente chewed other people's fingernails. Tris Speaker was Japanese. Lou Boudreau rode a dolphin into the batter's box. Nap Lajoie would only use John Wilkes Booth's dismembered leg as a bat. And he corked it. Johnny Mize was from the future. - FJM

by Choix003 on Feb 27, 2009 10:19 AM EST reply actions

Another Question

Ok trying to understand this stat a little better. Why do you take into account defense and then also a positional adjustment? Shouldn’t the defensive number already have a positional adjustment?

by thoran85 on Feb 27, 2009 10:25 AM EST reply actions

It's difficult to directly measure the fielding abilities of a center fielder and a first baseman.

So the trick is to compare all center fielders to each other and all first basemen to each other, and then compare the value of the average center fielder to the value of the average first baseman.

I agree that showing one number for “defense” can be useful. In that case, just add the Fld and Pos numbers together. I also like seeing them separate, though, as you can see Andruw was an excellent left fielder and Pujols was an average first baseman. And then you see that Pujols’ position was less valuable to begin with.

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Feb 27, 2009 10:34 AM EST up reply actions

Cool

That makes sense, but why then did Jones have such an awful year as measured by WinShares then? Doesn’t that stat take into account offense and defense?

by thoran85 on Feb 27, 2009 10:46 AM EST up reply actions

One to many thens

I was looking at hardballtimes for the WS data:

Jones 2005: 23 WS, 11 WSAB (24th NL)
Pujols 2005: 38 WS, 25 WSAB (1st NL)

I don’t know how they calculate the numbers but it seems his defensive number is not quite as great by whatever measure they use for 2005.

by thoran85 on Feb 27, 2009 10:52 AM EST up reply actions

No idea.

Win Shares defensive system is pretty bad. It doesn’t use play-by-play hit location data and it pretty arbitrary in dividing up credit between pitcher/fielder and between the fielders. I don’t even look at WS. Not that UZR should be the only fielding number you look at.

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Feb 27, 2009 10:58 AM EST up reply actions

This makes the Jones' signing all the more legit

The Rangers brought in a high upside guy who is really only year year removed from a semi productive season. Yes, he’s been godawful and yes, it’s unlikely he rebounds to previous form. But for a minor league contract? Sign me up, Scotty!

"If Bowden was a general contractor, he'd build houses with nine bedrooms, six garages, no bathrooms, and half a roof."

by DyeLongJustice on Feb 27, 2009 11:12 AM EST reply actions