Beyond the Box Score: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Sports blogs for fans, by fans.
New Blog: World Soccer Digest for Soccer Fans!

Minnesota: Fielding TargetView Before & After JJ Hardy

Uzr-coverageview-min-before-hardy_medium

Twins 2009 UZR/150, before JJ Hardy/Carlos Gomez Trade

See the excellent BtB analysis of the trade HERE.

Team Fielding Comparison after the jump.

Star-divide


Uzr-coverageview-min-after-hardy2_medium

Twins UZR/150, after JJ Hardy/Carlos Gomez Trade

Revised Chart assumption: Span moves to CF and Cuddyer takes RF.

 

Metrodome Target Field Difference
LF 343' 339' -4'
CLF 385' 377' -8'
CF 408' 404' -4'
CRF 367' 367' 0'
RF 327' 328' +1'

Field Dimension Comparisons

 

Questions for consumption: How will the shorter wall at Target Field (not affiliated with TargetView) in LF-CF change the fielding needs for Minnesota? Does this make the acquistion of Hardy even more valuable by 'walling-off' the left fielder with higher-UZR fielders? Does this give the Twins more flexibility in finding a powerbat-but-can't-field-Donkey-type in LF?

Or is it the other way around? Would the Twins have been better off by pursuing a better 2B to protect the holes in Right, assuming that bringing in the LF wall actually makes the left fielder better by giving less ground to cover?

 

Edit: Here's the original and probably mistaken UZR TargetView Chart with Cuddyer in center -

Uzr-coverageview-min-after-hardy_medium

 

 

Data Sources: Fangraphs (UZR/150), Wiki (Field Dimensions)

0 recs  |  Comment 20 comments  |  Add comment |

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

There's obviously no way Cuddyer is going to play CF

It would be sweet if he could replicate his success there though

http://twinkietalk.com
http://thecollegehockeyblog.com

by fetch9 on Nov 7, 2009 3:44 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

There's nothing to replicate

He’s played less than 3 full games in CF for his entire career.

by jibs on Nov 7, 2009 10:18 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

ha yea I know, that’s what I mean

http://twinkietalk.com
http://thecollegehockeyblog.com

by fetch9 on Nov 7, 2009 12:07 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I think a UZR/150 for Cuddyer in CF is REALLY misleading. He played 17 innings and there’s no way he was a cumulative 34.4 raw UZR in a cumulative 4455.2 innings since 2002 in RF and be a good defensive CFer. That’s a UZR/150 of -1.16 in RF the last 7 years. It’s because of this I have qualms about the TargetView using UZR/150 - the small samples really skew the data visualization.

But I do love these graphs.

by Mike Rogers on Nov 7, 2009 8:12 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Hmmmm, BtB doesn’t like me disagreeing! (I should preview my posts before posting them right away…)

by Mike Rogers on Nov 7, 2009 8:12 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Mike-

1. Agreed. Single year sample sizes are probably not the best way to visualize this.

2. Do you think we could put these data on a over-time scale and project what that player’s defensive capabilities should be at that position?

by Justin Bopp on Nov 7, 2009 3:21 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Span in center, Cuddyer in right, Punto at 2B

UZR of -3.3 (-7.4/150), -16.9 (-22.1/150), 3.3 (9.4/150) respectively.

The Twins still have a ton of work to do before they’re even an average defensive team. Especially when they have to sacrifice defense for offense when they move Kubel from DH.

by KMils on Nov 7, 2009 9:24 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

You could always have Carlos Guillen for 12 million dollars?

Does anybody remember that he was supposedly “upset” about being moved to right? Now that’s funny.

by Justin Bopp on Nov 7, 2009 3:23 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Their outfield defensive alignment will be, left to right, Young, Span, and Cuddyer

I thought they should’ve traded Young and gone with Span, Gomez, Cuddyer left to right, but whatever.

http://www.capitolavenueclub.com/

by PWHjort on Nov 7, 2009 12:30 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Thanks for the feedback everybody!

I added a “correct” chart with Denard in center and Cuddyer in RF. Quite a difference.

by Justin Bopp on Nov 7, 2009 3:19 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Hardy

After watching almost every game of JJ Hardy’s career, I can honestly say that he is not that good of a defensive shortstop. He is solid. But he is not elite. He fields what is hit to him, he has a plus arm, but his range is atrocious. He is the perfect example of why defensive statistics are very imperfect.

by backtocali on Nov 7, 2009 10:44 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Eyes dont lie

But numbers can be slanted.

I gave Hardy his due in that his glove is good and his arm is very good. He’s just not as good as UZR might indicate. There are a handful of guys, whose UZR is not as high as Hardy’s, that are better shortstops: Rollins, Tulowitzki, Yunel Escobar, Alcides Escobar, Jose Reyes, Brendan Ryan.

The Brewer pitching staff ERA will drop by about a 1/3rd fo a half of a run this year having Escobar at SS instead of Hardy.

by backtocali on Nov 7, 2009 11:04 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

1/3 of a run per game is 54 runs over a full season.

1/2 of a run per game is 81 runs over a full season.

Escobar is not that much better than Hardy. Hell, Ozzie Smith would barely be that much better than Frank Thomas.

by Sky Kalkman on Nov 8, 2009 6:49 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I have my own defensive metric and it doesn't like Hardy at all compared to UZR

He is the one person that is completely different.

I have just at or below league average.

Jeff Zimmerman - Protecting the world from RBI's and Wins from my mom's guest house.

by Jeff Zimmerman (TucsonRoyal) on Nov 7, 2009 11:48 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs


User Tools

We use numbers and stuff.
Community Guidelines
Why be a member?
Start posting on Beyond the Box Score »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Small
PZR-based Win Values 2001-2006
Small
The "30 parks on a budget" challenge

Recent FanPosts

Small
Determining Batted Ball Rates using Pitch Type and Location
Small
a new xBABIP calculator
Img587561916661595
Top 15 high school MLB draft prospects
Sunflower_small
World Series Simulation, Game #6
Small
JT20 Dynasty League
E52205a2_small
New Look
Sth70021_small
Exploring Hit f/x, Albeit Badly
Redcap_small
Ricky Nolasco: 4 WAR or 1 WAR?

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

FanShots

Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.

Recent FanShots

Primer on BaseRuns
Cool Baseball Infographics
ESPN's Jerry Crasnick on defensive metrics
I’m also a follower, since Brian Bannister’s on our team, of sabermetric st...
Top Ten Baseball-Reference.com's Sponsorships
Primer on Linear Weights
JC Bradbury on "Hot Stove Myths"
Everyone Should Learn to Throw a Cutter
Criminals of WAR
Ten statisticians you should know about

+ New FanShot All FanShots >

BtB on Twitter

Main Feed: @BtBScore

Tommy B: @tommy_bennett
Sky: @BtB_Sky
Dan: @dturkenk
Harry: @harrypav
Jinaz: @jinazreds
Jack: @jh_moore
Erik: @Erik_Manning
Tommy R: @trancel
Justin: @justinbopp

Subscribe to BtB via Email

Enter your email address:

Delivered by FeedBurner

BtB Goes Social


Managers

Nando_small R.J. Anderson

Limes_125_small Sky Kalkman

E52205a2_small Tommy Bennett

Editors

Face_small Harry Pavlidis

Rawlings_baseball_bigger_small Dan Turkenkopf

770insig_small Jeff Zimmerman (TucsonRoyal)

Aviles_small Justin Bopp

Authors

Banny_small erik

Raysring1_small Tommy Rancel

Jinaz-reds-avatar_small JinAZ

Jmlogo_small Jack Moore

1753738656_110919ebe9_o_small vivaelpujols

1_small Graham

Baseball_small Mike Rogers

Redcap_small SFiercex4

Small Patrick Clark

Walter_album_small Walter Fulbright