2010 HoF WAR Path - Are the New Candidates Good Enough to Get in?

by Justin Bopp on Oct 16, 2009 1:28 AM EDT in Visuals Above Replacement

Not shown (WAR): Lankford (40), Galarraga (26), Zeile (17)

Poll

Which of these hitters belongs in the Hall?

Robin Ventura

62 votes

Fred McGriff

90 votes

Ellis Burks

3 votes

Ray Lankford

21 votes

Andres Galarraga

10 votes

186 votes | Poll has closed

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Comments

Errr....

Larkin or Lankford?

by vivaelpujols on Oct 16, 2009 1:34 AM EDT reply actions

Oh, nevermind

by vivaelpujols on Oct 16, 2009 1:35 AM EDT up reply actions

From the poll

I would say none of the above probably. Larkin deserves the Hall and Alomar probably too, but I think they both might not make it for different reasons.

by kcgard2 on Oct 16, 2009 8:23 AM EDT reply actions

Looks like the crime dog

is a good comparison for replacement level HOFer.

Can we put all these in the hall of very good?

by JBrew on Oct 16, 2009 8:52 AM EDT reply actions

Larkin & Alomar

Interesting comp on those two guys. Alomar had the better peak, Larkin had longer sustained performance. … If anything, I would have thought the opposite was true! I hope Larkin’s able to get in.

Martinez—wow, better than I realized. WAR does a good job of addressing the need for a DH penalty, and yet he’s still the awesomeness.
-j

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by JinAZ on Oct 16, 2009 10:21 AM EDT reply actions

Here's hoping Larkin gets in

He’s smack dab at the center of the HoF zone most of his career, a few peak seasons at the top of the zone.

I hope Martinez gets in. He’s likely not a first ballot, but he deserves it. This will be the first time that the voters will be tested by a real DH who was great throughout his career. There have been others who have come up before (Baines comes to mind, even though he didn’t just DH), but no player before Martinez was a full-time DH and deserved this much consideration.

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by SFiercex4 on Oct 16, 2009 10:25 AM EDT reply actions

The poll is missing the “None of the above option”

Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's

by Giant among Angels on Oct 16, 2009 10:35 AM EDT reply actions

I am a small Hall person and would vote for none of the players.

Jeff Zimmerman - Protecting the world from RBI's and Wins from my mom's guest house.

by Jeff Zimmerman on Oct 16, 2009 12:56 PM EDT reply actions

None listed in the poll or none of the new candidates?

See Data Differently.
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by Justin Bopp on Oct 16, 2009 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions

None of the new candidates?

I might have to make a Jeff Zone of HOFers. The Jim Rices of the world and really bringing the average down for these comps. Actually, I would probably take players that are on average above the line.

Jeff Zimmerman - Protecting the world from RBI's and Wins from my mom's guest house.

by Jeff Zimmerman on Oct 16, 2009 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions

I am warming up to Larkin, but would prefer to see Lou Whitaker in first.

Jeff Zimmerman - Protecting the world from RBI's and Wins from my mom's guest house.

by Jeff Zimmerman on Oct 16, 2009 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions

I laughed at this.

…but it’s actually a good idea. We should establish some line where a number of undesirable candidates were accepted that are bringing down the mean. Then, we remove them and make a narrower zone of acceptable members.

See Data Differently.
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by Justin Bopp on Oct 16, 2009 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions

They all 3 may get, at least 2

Of the players that are hall eligible and have between 66 and 71 WAR, 12 of 16 actually got in.

52 Johnny Mize 70.1 yes
53 Billy Hamilton 69.6 yes
54 Lou Whitaker 69.6
55 Harry Heilmann 69.3 yes
56 Brooks Robinson 69.2 yes
57 Luke Appling 68.9 yes
59 Tony Gwynn 68.5 yes
60 Jesse Burkett 67.7 yes
61 Bobby Grich 67.6
62 Carlton Fisk 67.5 yes
64 Duke Snider 67.2 yes
67 Alan Trammell 66.8
68 Eddie Murray 66.7 yes
70 Pee Wee Reese 66.4 yes
72 Ron Santo 66.4
73 Gary Carter 66.2 yes

The Hof of voters just hate the Tigers.

Jeff Zimmerman - Protecting the world from RBI's and Wins from my mom's guest house.

by Jeff Zimmerman on Oct 16, 2009 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions

It would be interesting to see those mapped out against time.

Certainly, when we’re talking about a career total of 66 WAR, we’re talking about a significant career. But what about guys that had one amazing year followed by a shorter, less impressive career?

Without actually researching it, we could be seeing the effect of voters rejecting the one amazing year in favor of the more accepted, average view of that person’s career.

We should definitely look at this further.

See Data Differently.
beyondtheboxscore.com | Twitter: @ justinbopp

by Justin Bopp on Oct 16, 2009 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions

Scanned the options for Martinez a dozen times.

Didn’t find the option; therefore, I withheld from voting.

by Wilder. on Oct 16, 2009 1:12 PM EDT reply actions

There really wasn't a good solution there, and providing a list of undesirable options was kinda the point.

I could have added in the top three but everybody would have just voted for them. So you get above-average guys with long careers to pick from. :)

See Data Differently.
beyondtheboxscore.com | Twitter: @ justinbopp

by Justin Bopp on Oct 16, 2009 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions

I am such a Robin Ventura fan.

One of my favorite players ever. I would say put him in, and he definitely has a case, but I would understand the case against him as well.

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw

by squid92 on Oct 16, 2009 2:19 PM EDT reply actions

Surprised me how much of a case he has, actually.

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by Sky Kalkman on Oct 16, 2009 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions

Voted for Ventura as well

but that might be just because I still feel sorry for him from the beat down Nolan Ryan gave him….

JD’s like, "you want some fucking pitching? Here’s all the pitching you can stand. Now choke on it, bitches!"- RCCook

by laxtonto on Oct 17, 2009 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions

HOF

Fred McGriff belongs! He was one of the most consistent RBI men of his time. Most all of his career numbers are better than Jim Rice. (Mind you, Andre Dawson’s numbers are better than Jim Ed’s too, but unfortunately he played most of his career in Canada, which the writers seem to hold against him.) His 1550 rbi are way above and so are his 493 homeruns. Career Slugging over .500; obp = .377; runs scored 1349; 441 doubles; .886 ops. He also had a career .284 ba and 8 seasons of 100+ rbi.

There’s no doubt Robbie Alomar belongs there. He was better than Whitaker, Grich and even Sandberg. He had the greatest range I’ve ever seen for a 2b, which explains the 10 Gold Gloves. MInd you, you get in the Hall on your offensive credentials not your defensive work.

by Wileyvet on Oct 17, 2009 10:12 PM EDT reply actions

McGriffed surprised me a bit, actually.

But “consistency”, “RBI-man”, and “better than Jim Rice” aren’t going to sway me. He was a very good hitter, yes, but brought next to zero defensive contributions to the table.

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by Sky Kalkman on Oct 18, 2009 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions

Ventura

Ventura belongs in the Hall of Shame for that beat-down by Nolan. It reminds me of that country song “I knew what I was doing, but what was I thinking?” I bet Robin didn’t know that Ryan threw a knuckler, but Nolan was kind enough to show him a whole bunch. That Mr. Ryan was such a gentleman.

As for the real HOF, Ventura would only be mentioned because he played in New York because his numbers sure don’t justify it. Burks and Lankford, better buy a ticket at admissions boys.

by Wileyvet on Oct 17, 2009 10:29 PM EDT reply actions