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Now Playing Second Base, Number 24, Mark Teahen

According to Joe Posnanski, the Royals are considering moving Mark Teahen to second base.  As he mentions, this makes some sense considering Alex Gordon is firmly entrenched as the third baseman, and the Royals have a glut of corner outfield / first base / DH types (plus Teahen's bat doesn't really play at those positions).

Could this work? After all, Teahen was originally called up as a third baseman in 2005 and stayed there the next season.  In 2007 he was moved from 3B to right field to make room for the aforementioned Gordon, the Royals' top prospect at the time.

From Tango's work on positional values, we know second base and third base have equivalent fielding value.  While that means on average a player who moves between second and third will perform similarly at each position, it's not a given that any individual player will.

What does this mean for Teahen?  Well, the first problem is he wasn't that good a third baseman to begin with.  According to bUZR, Teahen was -17 runs in 2005 and basically average (.3 runs) in 2006.  Since it's been two seasons since he played much infield (he did play about 30 games at 3B or 1B last year), we might assume him to be closer to the 2005 number than to the 2006 number.  In fact, the CHONE projections have Teahen at -11 for third base.

Is there any reason to assume that Teahen's transition will differ from Tango's findings?  I'm not aware whether Teahen has played any second base in the past, but if not, there's likely a need to gain some familiarity with the position, especially making the pivot on the double play.  So it's probably fair to assume his performance at second base would initially be lower than at third base while he adjusts.

What about longer term?  Is there anything specific about Teahen or his skill set that could substantially aid or hamper the change?  His height is a concern.  In the original KC Star article Posnanski references, Sam Mellinger reports there's only been 4 second basemen who stand 6'3" or taller to get 500 plate appearance.  Of course that's an arbitrary cutoff, but it does speak to some perceived impediment of being tall at second base.

Also consider the skills needed at third versus second.  The initial reaction at third base is more important than at second because the 3B is much closer to the batter.  Also, the throws from third base are longer, so arm is generally considered more important there (although second basemen make a higher percentage of their throws moving away from first base, so the arm needs might be closer than one might think).  Looking back at the Fans' Scouting Reports from when Teahen was a third basemen, we find that the fans are concerned with his hands - which should impact either position.  Teahen's a tough player to gauge in the Scouting Report.  His 2005 season rates much higher than his 2006 season - exactly the opposite of what we found looking at bUZR.  2005's ratings suggested Teahen would be a quality third baseman - good first step, strong arm.  His 2006 ratings suggest he should probably put down his glove and become a DH.  So while overall, this look was a little inconclusive, we don't see anything obvious that indicates he'll be better at second than he was at third.

Second base is probably Teahen's last chance as a starter in KC, and I don't necessarily see teams lining up to deal for a mediocre fielding positionless player who's been below average with the bat the last two years.  And that's really the issue.  Despite showing flashes of greatness in the minors and in a somewhat abbreviated 2006 season, Mark Teahen hasn't been that good.  Perhaps the Royals are hoping a return to the infield helps his bat, or they're just trying to see if they can salvage something from him at a position where they don't have many other alternatives.  Either way, it's a risk worth taking, but I'm not so optimistic about it's chance of success.

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Teahen = utility player

Teahen said he played 2B his freshman year in college. Turning two was his biggest worry too. I don’t think the Royals are expecting him to have much of a chance at starting. They want to get him some time at 2B during spring training ,and if he isn’t terrible, then it is just one more position he can back up. He’s going to be a utility player, and this is just another way to get more plate appearances out of him.

by Trey Hillman's Chin on Jan 27, 2009 10:00 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Teahen's no star

the main problem, of course, is that there isn’t room for him in the outfield, where he’s rated between average (bUZR) and above average (sUZR, PMR) defensively. Now, his bat isn’t great out there, but he might be alright if he’s a bit above league average with the bat and glove (see his CHONE and ZiPS projections) and might “make up” the positional adjustment… except the Royals have Jose Guillen out there, sucking it up on both sides of the ball, and little prospect of finding someone to trade for him and his terrible contract.

Bringing you more-or-less replacement level analysis and commentary since sometime in 2008.

by devil_fingers on Jan 27, 2009 10:39 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

From Tango’s work on positional values, we know second base and third base have equivalent fielding value. While that means on average a player who moves between second and third will perform similarly at each position, it’s not a given that any individual player will.

Equivalent value ≠ similar performance. 3B requires a stronger arm and quicker reactions. 2B requires better footwork, ability to turn DPs, handling relay throws.

by scatterbrian on Jan 27, 2009 1:05 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Quick look at 2B vs 3B

Using the data from FanGraphs I looked at players that had at least 100 innings at each position. Here are the results

Total players: 43
Innings at 2B: 25410
Innings at 3B: 23656
UZR/150 at 2B: -2.24
UZR/150 at 3B: -0.34

Grouped players that had more innings at 2B vice 3B:
Innings at 2B: 16008
Innings at 3B: 5438
UZR/150 at 2B: -2.21
UZR/150 at 3B: 0.89

Grouped players that had more innings at 3B vice 2B:
Innings at 2B: 6415
Innings at 3B: 15879
UZR/150 at 2B: -2.40
UZR/150 at 3B: -0.93

Looks like 2B is harder to play (about 2-3 runs of UZR/150) than 3B when comparing players that have played them both.

by Jeff Zimmerman (TucsonRoyal) on Jan 27, 2009 2:24 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

check this out Tuscon

here’s a piece on the Defensive Spectrum, along with a cool explanation of why 3B used to be considered harder than 2B.

by scatterbrian on Jan 27, 2009 3:29 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

second vs. third

In the OPA! examinations that I did I found that performance at 2b and 3b were correlated at about .50.

Range appears to be the only skill that is portable across the diamond, although there was a bit of correlation between arm ratings at 3b and arm at 2b. The problem is that 2bs have to make throws which are often contortion jobs (good body control) and 3bs just have to make really long throws (strong arm). So, the skills probably don’t translate well.

For Teahen’s part, he rates as below average on both range and arm at 3b in 2008. He might simply have to resign to being a man without a position.

http://statspeak.net

by pizzacutter on Jan 27, 2009 5:15 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

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