Who Should Pick Hall Of Famers
I think most readers of this site will agree that the current Hall of Fame voters -- those members of the BBWAA with at least ten years of service -- don't perform at much higher than a C+ level. But who would do better? Here are some options:
- The players' peers. Maybe each player with at least 60 days on a MLB roster during a season in which the nominated player played gets a vote, and the votes are weighted by number of seasons as a peer. The argument for this approach is that you have to have played the game to really appreciate and know who the best players are. The argument against this position is that the first argument is a load of crap. MLB players are certainly the best at knowing how to perform certain skills, but there's no reason they should be the best at determining value, the relative importance of outcomes, which result from the application of skills.
- The players' bosses. This would include managers and/or general managers. These decision-makers know which players they wanted on their teams. Or at least in theory. To give Bill Bavasi and Dusty Baker the same number of votes as Billy Beane and Earl Weaver seems silly. Personally, I like this idea better than giving the vote to players, but it's only marginally better.
- A different group of baseball writers. Good reporters are not necessarily good analysts. And the BBWAA doesn't even make an attempt to differentiate between good and bad reporters. But what if they did? What if there were elections of a special group of writers every few years who actually were smart analysts, and it's those writers who vote for the Hall of Fame?
- A data based algorithm. You know, something like JAWS. Obviously, nobody's in favor of leaving voting up to just any data-driven system (cough productive outs cough), but might there be some that are really really good? You could even build in 20% of the vote based on humans adjusting for intangibles/immeasurables, I suppose.
- A mixture of everything. I hate to go down the BCS route, but maybe players, managers, writers, and the stats all get input to varying degrees. This would certainly give a voice to everyone, although mixing together a lot of B.S. with a touch of intelligence (whichever piece you think is the intelligent one) still leaves a lot of B.S. in the mixture.
- A board of trustees. I'm not really sure how this one would work, but I think it's possible to create a consensus of 25 baseball people who we all trust to a certain degree. Names like Sandy Alderson, Bill James, Earl Weaver, Joe Posnanski, Scott Boras, and Bart Giamatti come to find. This approach is similar to the "mixture of everything" approach, except that you don't give votes to all members of each group. Instead, you let each group put their best foot forward.
We all know when something isn't working, but the question of finding a better method is often trickier than you first think. Which ideas seems plausible? Can you come up with any others you favor? Or is the Hall of Fame just not that important?
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16 comments
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Comments
I really don't so much mind the voting process as a whole, but...
… it needs some adjusting.
First, I believe the HOF is for the best of the best, so I think too many players make it in (i.e. Jim Rice). I think some marginal players stay on the ballot every year do to home town bias (people voting for the local hero). I propose the following two items:
1. All players have 3 choices Yes, No, Maybe next year. If a player gets 50% No they are off, otherwise they stay around for the next ballot.
2. Limit the number of voters per area. Writers from the NYC chapter of the BBWAA have as many votes as writers from San Diego, Pittsburgh, Milwaukee, Kansas City, Houston, Dallas-Fort Worth, Colorado, Cleveland and Atlanta chapters combined.
by Jeff Zimmerman (TucsonRoyal) on Jan 14, 2009 10:30 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Hmm
Hasn’t Bart Giamatti been dead for about 20 years? Did you mean Peter Ueberroth? Or Paul Giamatti? I wouldn’t mind having Pig Vomit pick the hall of famers.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on Jan 14, 2009 12:01 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Uh, I meant Brickhaus.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
by Sky Kalkman on Jan 14, 2009 12:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
To give Bill Bavasi and Dusty Baker the same number of votes as Billy Beane and Earl Weaver seems silly.
That’s just piling on for us Reds fans. :(
We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches
by Slyde on Jan 14, 2009 12:27 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
me.
"When I began playing the game, baseball was about as gentlemanly as a kick in the crotch."
by larry on Jan 14, 2009 2:25 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Funny you mention this...
I’m reading James’s “Whatever Happened to the Hall of Fame?” right now. Great stuff.
If I hit a hole-in-one on this grand slam the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate.
by jasonkylebates on Jan 14, 2009 2:46 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Does he address this question?
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
by Sky Kalkman on Jan 14, 2009 9:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The whole book is about how screwed up the HOF is.
I’ve yet to get to recommendations, but I know they’re coming.
Here’s the book.
If I hit a hole-in-one on this grand slam the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate.
by jasonkylebates on Jan 15, 2009 12:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I lean towards 3 and 6.
I prefer the way things are to just about any other option, really.
by philkid3 on Jan 14, 2009 9:36 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I'm guessing
that the most rational way is to do it two ways.
1. make all ballots public: and let the public pressure do the rest
2. make a board that picks out particularly awful ballots and have the power to ban voters for a period of time.
by RollingWave on Jan 15, 2009 1:43 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
The voting is too narrow.
I think the BBWAA needs to allow more writers to contribute to the voting.
I also like the idea of allowing Managers and GMs to contribute. Although, the one problem with that method is that there have been tons of incompetent individuals who have both of those positions… sometimes for seasons on end. Seems like if they were allowed to vote there would need to be some kind of measure of success required to determine who gets a vote. Actually, now it sounds overly complicated, but I still think the notion is a good one.
Oh, and does anyone know why there’s a 10 year wait to start voting after you’re invited to join the BBWAA? Most of the writers who get in have already been contributing for years, right? Why make them wait longer? Is it a strange provision to ensure that everyone voting covered the candidates during their prime?
http://www.hometownhornets.blogspot.com/
by hldomingue on Jan 15, 2009 12:54 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
My main wish would be to have qualified voters.
The question of “Is he a Hall of Famer?” is a question of value. There are many people involved in baseball, but very few of them need to determine value. Very few of them keep or lose their job based on how good they are at determining value. Giving the job to people who don’t have to be good at it seems pointless.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
by Sky Kalkman on Jan 15, 2009 4:59 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
no one is going to fully agree with the picks by anyone or anyones.
and many, many people would certainly disagree with your assertion that the question of is he a HOF is a question of value. or, at the very least, what value means.
i will no longer laugh at the directions for a water landing.
by larry on Jan 15, 2009 5:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ability? Talent?
Or are you saying that some people think it’s about fame?
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
by Sky Kalkman on Jan 15, 2009 6:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
it's about lots of things, some obviously more than others.
while attempting to quantify it statistically will get you most of the way, that would be damn boring if that’s what was all that mattered. of course it’s about fame. it’s about moments. it’s about stuff that isn’t quantifiable. it’s about knowing a hall of famer when we see it. we don’t like baseball because of numbers, do we.
the reason i posted ‘me’ above is that my hall of fame is different from your hall of fame and i’m not going to agree with everyone picked or not picked. there is not going to be a HOF that is without controversy. if there were, it would suck. things will be improved and refined but never perfected.
i will no longer laugh at the directions for a water landing.
by larry on Jan 15, 2009 6:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Colin Cowherd!
Bringing you more-or-less replacement level analysis and commentary since sometime in 2008.
by devil_fingers on Jan 17, 2009 12:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

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