Beyond the Box Score: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Around SBN: Has Kentucky Improved Since the Non-Conference Season?

Cliff Lee's Cy Young Campaign Isn't Playing Fair

I've read two good articles recently about how Cliff Lee has had an advantage over Roy Halladay and almost every other AL starter this year -- the quality of the hitters he's faced has been extremely low.

From Batters Box users Magpie and zepelinkm:

Anyway, the overall impact is truly striking - Halladay has pitched against somewhat better offenses (his opponents have averaged 4.81 runs per game, Lee's have averaged 4.58 runs per game.) But Doc has pitched far more often against better teams, not just teams who score more runs, and he's generally been matched up against better starting pitchers. It's not particularly close, especially when it comes to being matched up against the very best teams in the game.

From Joe Sheehan at Baseball Prospectus:

Let me run the data this way, because I think it illustrates the point. The following numbers are the team EqA ranks for each not-in-common opponent, highest to lowest.

Halladay: 3, 4, 4, 4, 9, 9, 9, 11, 11, 14, 14, 14, 14, 17, 18, 18

Lee: 7, 7, 7, 12, 13, 13, 21, 22, 22, 25, 26, 27, 28, 28, 28

I think there's a more direct way to look at the disparity of offenses faced by the two pitchers, however, using BPro's Pitchers' Quality of Batters Faced stats report.  The average OPS of hitters faced by Roy Halladay (weighting their OPS's by number of plate appearances against him) is .766.  Cliff Lee's hitters are at .731.  That's a .035 point difference in OPS, which over approximately 800 batters faced is worth five runs -- a .050 point difference in OPS over 600 PAs is approximately five runs, given the same OBP/SLG profile.

Okay, so how much does five runs matter?  Well, it's about half a win for a team.  But on the individual scale, over Cliff Lee's 200 innings, five extra runs would bump his ERA up from 2.28 to 2.51.  Or removing five runs from Halladay's 2.64 ERA over 220 innings would cut his ERA down to 2.43. In other words, Lee's advantage over Halladay in ERA nearly disappears.

Finally, and without much commentary, here's how the two pitchers compare in a number of non-traditional metrics (before applying the above adjustment, naturally):

Starter IP FIP-RAR FIP xFIP tRA
Halladay 218 65 2.98 3.15 3.50
Lee 202 66 2.60 3.60 2.70

Halladay's innings advantage counters Lee's FIP advantage and they split the xFIP and tRA battles.  One of these guys won't win the Cy Young award, but was just as good as the one who will win it.  Can the BBWAA hand out two awards this year and forget about third place?

FIP-RAR and FIP are from Justin's stats, xFIP is from The Hardball Times, and tRA is from Stat Corner.

0 recs  |  Comment 8 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

Sadly Halladay has little shot.

Voters will look at Lee’s win totals and ERA and assume he’s easily better.

by R.J. Anderson on Sep 10, 2008 2:28 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

The most ridiculous part

is that Frankie Rodriguez will end up with 60+ saves and probably eclipse Halladay for second place

by SuckaMD on Sep 10, 2008 7:36 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Article mentioned on TV!!!

Hi mate,

I was watching the Braves and Rockies game and your article was mention at the top of the 8th when Tulowitzki is batting and I believe the count was 2-2.

Check it out if you have MLB.tv. The commentator mentioned that it was a good read and interesting, but instead of mentioning Beyond the Box Score, he said it’s probably from “I-still-live-in-the-basement-with-mom.com”. LOL.

by yangry on Sep 10, 2008 10:00 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Lee gets the Royals AGAIN tonight

Should seal the deal for him.

We always did feel the same, We just saw it from a different point of view, Tangled up in blue.
-Bob Dylan

by Royal Kingdom on Sep 12, 2008 1:54 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

" (his opponents have averaged 4.81 runs per game, Lee’s have averaged 4.58 runs per game.)"

Considering you can’t score .81 runs, I think we can throw that ridiculous stat out of the window for this argument.

also, Halladay has two times as many complete games as Lee. Doesn’t that mean something?

by scruffz on Sep 26, 2008 10:49 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

We use numbers and stuff.
Community Guidelines
Why be a member?
Start posting on Beyond the Box Score »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

770insig_small
BtB's "Ball On A Budget" Fantasy League - Discuss Participants, Payrolls and Position Eligibility

Recent FanPosts

Ds9_small
good graphing program?
Small
Predicting HR/FB Rates
Leopold_butter_scotch_southpark_small
Troy Tulowitzki vs Ryan Braun
Small
Pitchers batted ball observations
Small
Eric Byrnes: A player worth a look?
Small
Valverde Is Charging Detroit Double
Mukuro_small
Another question: About power rankings
Small
Why You Shouldn't Trade for Arroyo
Jinaz-reds-avatar_small
Last Call for BtB Sabermetric Writing Award Nominations

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

FanShots

Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.

Recent FanShots

Can you spot the five guys NOT in the Hall of Fame? It's easy, I separated 'em for ya. :)

Here's the full post about guys elected to the Hall of Fame primarily for their defense. Guys like Brooks Robinson, Ozzie Smith, Bobby Wallace, John Ward, and Bid McPhee stand up as definite HOFers, with many others worthy of debate (and a couple aren't worth any debate at all).

I almost made it through the whole post without comparing some HOFers to our friends Bill Dahlen, Lou Whitaker, Bobby Grich, Alan Trammell, and Ron Santo. Almost.
If you care about newspaper coverage of MLB, read this post
Visualizing the Difference Between Offensive and Defensive Value for Catchers
First B-Pro and now ESPN. Tommy, you're growing up so fast
THT - Advancing by ground
Negro League Museum Close to Folding
It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one...
Ranking Minor League Systems Using Victors Wang's Prospect Valuations
Pitch f/x on Ricky Nolasco Stretch vs. Windup again
Veron Wells the artist.  I never knew.

http://www.vwellsart.com/

+ New FanShot All FanShots >

BtB on Twitter

Main Feed: @BtBScore

Jeff: @jeffwzimmerman
Steve: @steve_sommer
Sky: @BtB_Sky
Dan: @dturkenk
Harry: @harrypav
Jinaz: @jinazreds
Jack: @jh_moore
Erik: @Erik_Manning
Tommy R: @trancel
Justin: @justinbopp

Subscribe to BtB via Email

Enter your email address:

Delivered by FeedBurner

BtB Goes Social


Managers

Wbc_029_small Jeff Sullivan

Editors

Rawlings_baseball_bigger_small Dan Turkenkopf

Limes_125_small Sky Kalkman

770insig_small Jeff Zimmerman (TucsonRoyal)

Aviles_small Justin Bopp

Authors

Roots_game_small R.J. Anderson

Jinaz-reds-avatar_small JinAZ

Face_small Harry Pavlidis

1753738656_110919ebe9_o_small vivaelpujols

Ozzie_small erik

Raysring1_small Tommy Rancel

Redcap_small SFiercex4

St_louis_cardinals_ce1141_003263_small stevesommer05

Paige_small Satchel Price