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Junior's Twilight

Greetings, Beyond the Box Score!  My name is Jesse, and I also write for the Twins over at the SB Nation site Twinkie Town.  For my first post I'm going right to the well, and hitting up my favorite player of baseball's modern era:  Ken Griffey Jr.

Entering his twentieth season, Ken Griffey Jr. is 38 years old.  It's bizarre to realize that baseball's Golden Boy is nearing the end of his career.  Sure, he can play another few years--he can play as long as he wants.  But it's strange knowing that sooner rather than later, those numbers that at one time were skyrocketing at astronomical proportions will cease to climb.  How much longer can The Kid continue his quest for baseball immortality?

Star-divide

At least through his age-38 season.  By the time most baseball players reach their 38th birthday, they're well into the stages of decline (if they're playing at all).  On Junior's 38th birthday he was prepping for Thanksgiving, and we already know he doesn't fall into the "most baseball players" category.  Beyond that it's pure speculation, but PECOTA projects Griffey will play through 2011 before leaving the game.  Let's browse through a handful of his career comps to see how they fared.

Paul O'Neill, 2001

Age AB 2B HR SO BB AVG OBP SLG
37 566 26 18 90 51 .283 .336 .424
38 510 33 21 59 48 .267 .330 .459

 

O'Neill's last season was in 2001, and was still a solid offensive contributor.  He's no Junior, but the fact that he was able to maintain his productivity is a good sign.

Fred McGriff, 2002

Age AB 2B HR SO BB AVG OBP SLG
37 513 25 31 106 66 .306 .386 .544
38 523 27 30 99 63 .273 .353 .505

 

 

This was McGriff's last productive season, posting an 125 OPS+.  Fred isn't going to make the Hall of Fame, but is a great candidate for the Hall of Very Good for a Very Long Time.  While he regressed from '01 to '02, he was still a dangerous bat to have in the lineup.  If Griffey could replicate McGriff's line above, it would be a good year.

Cliff Johnson, 1986

Age AB 2B HR SO BB AVG OBP SLG
37 369 17 13 59 40 .260 .334 .417
38 336 12 15 57 52 .250 .355 .426

 

Johnson was never a star, but he was usually an efficient hitter. Even in his final season, at age 38, he posted a .110 OPS+ and a very reasonable .274 EQA.  A year like this would be disappointing for Griffey, as a steep decline in power like this would signal an end to his career closer to 2008 than PECOTA's anticipated 2011.

Luis Gonzales, 2006

Age AB 2B HR SO BB AVG OBP SLG
37 579 37 24 90 78 .271 .366 .459
38 586 52 15 58 69 .271 .352 .444

 

Gonzales had a nice, slow decline in his numbers going on prior to his injury-truncated 2007 campaign.  His numbers in '06 certainly weren't bad for a 38-year old, and he racked up a ridiculous number of doubles.  He's still playing (with the Marlins this season), giving more credibility to the belief that Junior can play when he's 40.  Griffey putting up a line like this would, again, signal a drastic power and significant on-base skill reduction; but it does prove that players at age-38 can remain as relatively productive as they had been at age-37.

Larry Walker, 2005

Age AB 2B HR SO BB AVG OBP SLG
37 258 16 17 57 49 .298 .424 .589
38 315 20 15 64 41 .298 .384 .502

 

Once again we're looking at a player who was out of baseball following his age-38 campaign.  Walker's last couple of seasons were littered with minor scrapes and days off, something Griffey could identify with, but he remained a force to be reckoned with when in the lineup.  An OPS+ of 130 at this stage of anyone's career is impressive.

*   *   *   *   *

Generally, there are two types of position players who are still heavily involved in the game at the age of 38:  potential Hall of Famers, and scrappy infielders who have been able to find a job due more to versatility and a lack of better options than their own talents (you tell me how Jeff Reboulet played until he was 39).  We know which one of those Griffey is, but again this isn't about how great he's been historically; it's about how long he can continue to grace our summer.

Baseballreference.com does something similar to PECOTA, in that they generate a couple of comparative lists.  For comparative purposes, let's see what age each of the players on those lists played to.

Similar Batters:  Sammy Sosa (39, still active); Gary Sheffield (39, still active); Mickey Mantle (36); Mike Schmidt (39); Jeff Bagwell (37); Fred McGriff (40); Willie Stargell (42); Frank Thomas (40, still active); Eddie Mathews (36); Reggie Jackson (41)

Most Similar By Age:  20-22, Al Kaline (39); 23, 24, Mickey Mantle; 25-32 (36), Frank Robinson; 33-36 (40), Sammy Sosa (39, still active)

While all these players have greatness in common, not all of them were necessarily productive at the tails of their careers.  It's a truth in baseball as it's a truth in life:  when you get to a certain age, performance suffers.  How and when are the questions that matter, and things come to an end even for the historically magnificent.  They even will come to an end for a player with one of baseball's sweetest swings ever.

A select few can continue to take productive plate appearances, even into their late 30's and sometimes even into their 40's.  We know that if Junior can keep himself off the disabled list, he'll be able to play into his 40's if he so chooses.  It's at this point in his career where productivity and the decision to remain active in the game go hand-in-hand, and it becomes a precarious dance to see if the numbers continue to justify his playing time.

PECOTA projects Griffey's weighted mean at .268/.350.481 in 435 plate appearances.  While I want to be more optimistic than this, it's a very reasonable forecast.  Over the last couple seasons Griffey's been hitting fewer line drives, more pop-ups and is in a decline with his home run rates.  Last season only 13.2% of his fly balls were home runs, which is only a hair above average.  If these peripherals continue to decline at this rate, PECOTA's projection of Griffey playing through 2011 may actually be optimistic.

In any era of baseball it's been common to see great players continue on into their 40's; it's often expected.  But no matter what happens to him health-wise, his numbers will continue their ebb.  All we can hope for is one more ball, one more home run, one more season.

My projection:  4 more years, 92 more home runs, 479 more hits.

Poll
How long will Junior play baseball?
  • Through 2008 (age 38)
  • Through 2009 (39)
  • Through 2010 (40)
  • Through 2011 (41)
  • Through 2012 (42)
  • Through 2013 (43)

  89 votes | Results

0 recs | Comment 13 comments

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Comments

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Welcome Jesse

As for Griff, I could see him being bought out (4 mil buyout, 16.5 million otherwise) and moving to the AL as a DH only type. If so, maybe 2-3 more years, if not more.

by R.J. Anderson on Apr 5, 2008 11:25 PM EDT   0 recs

I voted for only

1 more year after this but I think that if you are right and he becomes a DH he might stick around longer. His career has been a good one. He was such a great player. I was sorry to see his career slowed down by the injuries. I hope that he has a great season this year(and not just because he's on my fantasy team ). The Reds are have a promising team and are a lot of fun to watch.

by IM4Oakgal on Apr 6, 2008 6:15 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I'd like

to see him move back to Seattle, but only because I think there's something natural about seeing a career like his come full circle.

Of course I wouldn't mind seeing him with the Twins...but that won't happen.

by Jesse on Apr 6, 2008 7:16 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Oddly enough

the Twins will have the financial flexibility to make an acquisition like that this coming off-season, if he does go relatively bargain bin, but there's already a dearth of outfielders around. I don't mind tossing out Craig Monroe, but Delmon Young, Michael Cuddyer and Carlos Gomez will all be playing full time. And if Jason Kubel can finally put together a year like he's capable of having, picking up Griffey would be a better romantic pick up than one that would substantially make the offense better.

A lot of it would depend on how both Kubel and Griffey do this year. I'd love to see Junior in Minnesota, I just don't think it's realistic, and I don't think it would fit into Bill Smith's plan for the team.

by Jesse on Apr 6, 2008 1:52 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

It's likely counterproductive

Although he does seem to match what Seattle would want in a DH. Assuming they don't sign Bonds, which they should.

"Baseball fans are junkies, and their heroin is the statistic." - Robert S. Weider

by R.J. Anderson on Apr 6, 2008 3:16 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Good point

Oakland will be very young and very good, very soon. If Seattle wants to take a shot, it'd be best they do it soon, and they could use another big bat. Bonds makes a lot of sense for them.

by Jesse on Apr 6, 2008 3:58 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

"Fred isn't going to make the Hall of Fame, but is a great candidate for the Hall of Very Good for a Very Long Time."

I really don't know if that's true, I think he could -- and I hope he does -- sneak in because of the Hall's supposed commitment to keeping steroid users out.

by R.J. Anderson on Apr 6, 2008 1:10 PM EDT   0 recs

I think he should make it, too

But I don't think he will, if only because he finished with 493 HR. It's one of those ridiculous standards that can be broken for some people (Puckett's numbers don't merit HoF, for example), but not for others.

by Jesse on Apr 6, 2008 1:46 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Milestones

Assuming 4 more years, it's entirely possible Griffey can reach...
700HR / 3000H / 2000RBI

He has hit 35/27/30 HRs the past 3 years while missing 105 Games. That's still a VERY impressive rate at his age. Last year Griffey had a very solid season.

Everyone should take a look at Sheffield and Griffeys stats. They are separated by only 20 PA, so everything is basically on the exact same playing scale. If Griffey is such a No Doubt HOFER, why is Sheff borderline?

Sheff never had a consistent "peak stretch", but he has more 150 OPS+ seasons than Griffey. Using WARP1 / BRAR / EQA adjusted for season (because both played in the same seasons), Sheff actually beats out Griffey in all 3.

I guess this is a peak vs. longevity but in this case the end result is almost exactly the same.

by mlbfan30 on Apr 6, 2008 5:55 PM EDT   0 recs

Intangibles

I hate to bring up the idea of intangibles, especially in my first post on the sabermetric board, but I think it is relevant when discussing Hall of Fame candidacies, given the tendencies of the voters.

Both Sheffield and Griffey are no-brainer HoF choices based on numbers, but their reputations among the common fan are quite different - Griffey was the Golden Boy of baseball through the 1990s, popular enough to have his own video game series and the face of a franchise before eventually going back to his hometown team (which helped him avoid the PR hit like A-Rod took when leaving Seattle); meanwhile, Sheffield was a surly gun-for-hire type (he was never with a team more than four full seasons; ask 10 people what team they identify him with and you'd probably get 5 different answers) who feuded with his teammates and once admitted to quitting on his team in the hope of getting traded. People root for Ken Griffey Jr.; people root against Gary Sheffield.

Sheffield's HoF candidacy will also be hurt by being Barry Bonds' training partner for awhile, warranted or not.

"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein

by BeefMaster on Apr 7, 2008 11:23 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Griffey- Sport changer

He changed so much about baseball. He was supposed to be baseballs savior. In a way, he was. He had his own TV commercials, video games, and was on the wheaties box, more than a few times. I'll hate to see Griffey leave baseball.
Cameron Maybin reminds me so much of Griffey.

by GeorgiaBallplayer6 on Apr 10, 2008 10:12 PM EDT   0 recs

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