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Three Short Reasons Why Nolan Ryan is Overrated

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Not one of the three reasons.

 

Nolan Ryan is a legend; he might’ve been the first pitcher I ever learned about. After all baseball fans love hard throwers, and Ryan was a hard thrower like none other. Here’s the thing though: he’s overrated, massively. Ryan is still an above average pitcher, make no mistake, but for all the talk about best pitchers ever he should never be brought up as a legitimate candidate, and here’s why. 

To begin let’s state some of Ryan’s storied accomplishments, namely that he’s the all-time leader in no-hitters (seven) and strikeouts (5,714) and won 324 games. Ryan averaged almost 10 strikeouts per nine during his 27 year career and allowed less than seven hits per nine. Ryan also averaged 6.6 innings per start over his career while never suffering an arm injury.

Now let’s address why he’s overrated. Ryan walked 4.67 batters per nine – adding five base runners per game. His career ERA+ is 111, Wilson Alvarez, my beloved Rays’ opening day starter way back in 1998, had a career ERA+ of 112. In fairness to Ryan he averaged around 40 more innings per season than Alvarez and ERA+ isn’t a perfect indicator of talent, but the likes of Bob Gibson and Greg Maddux have ERA+ measures of over 120. 

The final reason Ryan is overrated is beyond his control, as I began with Ryan is a legend. He’s the prototypical "Texas flamethrower’ guys like Kerry Wood and Roger Clemens are endlessly compared to Ryan. Obviously we can’t measure this in statistical form, but constantly hearing how great Ryan is has built up a sense of iconic measures compared to the hype received by the likes of Bert Blyleven amongst others.

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longevity

There is something to be said about being able to last as long as he did and be effective for as long as he was. I'm biased - I tried for 9 months to convince my wife to name our 1st child Nolan Ryan Collette but failed. I don't think he's the greatest pitcher in my lifetime, but if I were picking a 5 man rotation of pitchers I've seen since I started watching baseball in 1980, he's on it.

visit rotojunkie for your all of your fantasy baseball help

by Jason Collette on Apr 1, 2008 10:50 AM EDT reply actions  

Since 1980...

I'd take, in no particular order, Pedro Martinez, Roger Clemens, Greg Maddux, Randy Johnson, Tom Glavine, Johan Santana and hell, maybe John Smoltz before Ryan. He's a Hall of Famer, yes, but I can name plenty of guys who are/were better than him during his own time and afterward who don't receive half of the adoration.

I can't argue with a guy who wants to name his kid after a baseball player though. I had to settle for naming my cat Brian Giles, and no one would let me name the next cat Marcus Giles either.

"I don't set the rosters, I just make fun of the guy who does" - Rob Neyer

by Marc Normandin on Apr 1, 2008 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

Glavine

You cited the man I despise as much as I adore Ryan. I maintain the pre-Questec days benefited him greatly. Did Olson ever even need to set up in the catcher's box? :) The first 4 guys you named would be the front 4 for me with Ryan taking the 5 spot. Pedro has probably been the most "dominating" pitcher for a significant span in my lifetime while Maddux has been the most masterful. When I talk about dominating, I'm looking at the minisicule H/9, HR/9, and OppBA.

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by Jason Collette on Apr 1, 2008 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

Smoltz

"and hell John Smoltz?" I'd actually take Smoltz before I took Maddux, Johnson or Glavine. He's money in the playoffs which swings him into the Top 5 since 1980 for me.

"It is like Menudo, where guys reach a certain age and are kicked out of the band. And they go on to be Ricky Martins somewhere else." -Billy Beane

by Stephen Webb on Apr 1, 2008 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Arbitrary...but fun.

Since 1980, my top 5 pitchers that I'd enjoy/want on my staff is:

Pedro Martinez
John Smoltz
Nolan Ryan
Johan Santana
Greg Maddux

"It is like Menudo, where guys reach a certain age and are kicked out of the band. And they go on to be Ricky Martins somewhere else." -Billy Beane

by Stephen Webb on Apr 1, 2008 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Enjoyment is a requirement?

In that case:
Chan Ho Park
Hideki Irabu
Hideo Nomo
Kaz Ishii
Tomo Ohka

by R.J. Anderson on Apr 1, 2008 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Marcus

Good thing they talked you out of that. The cat no doubt would have been an alcoholic and a dumbass. As for Nolan Ryan, I think we can all agree that he whupped Ventura's ass.

by Richard Wade on Apr 2, 2008 3:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

then again

It probably explains why I am also a fan of putting Blyleven into the HOF.

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by Jason Collette on Apr 1, 2008 11:08 AM EDT reply actions  

Is there a reason for this hit piece?

Ryan may not be the greatest overall pitcher of all time, but he is indisputably the greatest strikeout pitcher of all time. And everyone loves the K. He's also the only guy since Koufax that you could watch and reasonably hope that today would be the day for a no-hitter...

Marc has an excellent list there - but look at all the K guys. Ryan is their forefather. He wasn't the greatest of all time, but he was easily one of the most exciting to watch.

by cephyn on Apr 1, 2008 11:18 AM EDT reply actions  

This isn't the NBA...

There's no way he sired all of them ;-)

"I don't set the rosters, I just make fun of the guy who does" - Rob Neyer

by Marc Normandin on Apr 1, 2008 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

touche, friend. touche. :)

by cephyn on Apr 1, 2008 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

Actually there is

Although it's not a perfect lead in, my next piece is going to be examining whether pitchers with iffy control are more likely to throw a no-hitter than their accurate counterparts.

by R.J. Anderson on Apr 1, 2008 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

do you have a sample size for that? are you counting 1-hitters and 2-hitters as near misses? I guess I'll wait for your piece - but my gut says "no correlation"

by cephyn on Apr 1, 2008 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

I could see that...

AJ Burnett's no-no for example?

by TexasTiger on Apr 1, 2008 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

Sure...

Don't forget Juan Nieves's "masterpiece" in 1987

visit rotojunkie for your all of your fantasy baseball help

by Jason Collette on Apr 1, 2008 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

Hi...

I'm Bud Smith. Remember me? ;)

"It is like Menudo, where guys reach a certain age and are kicked out of the band. And they go on to be Ricky Martins somewhere else." -Billy Beane

by Stephen Webb on Apr 1, 2008 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

how about....

just the fact that he didn't give up many hits per inning. He averaged 0.73 hits per inning over his career. That's lower than nearly all qualifying starters did last year just for the season.

Maybe there is a correlation between iffy control and hittability and hittability and no-hitters. My guess is if you have iffy control, the only way you can keep a job in the majors is if you don't give up hits...hence the correlation. Conversely, if you are hittable, then you need to reduce your BBs to stay employed.

by DenverBears on Apr 1, 2008 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

"Ryan is their forefather. He wasn't the greatest of all time, but he was easily one of the most exciting to watch."

I'm not at all debating that he wasn't exciting, I'm merely stating this his legend has exceeded his performances.

by R.J. Anderson on Apr 1, 2008 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

OK fair enough - I just feel his legend isn't based on his skilled pitching, but his dominating K-rate, 100mph fastball, intimidating mound presence (somewhat for opposite reasons of say, Bob Gibson), longevity and no-hitters.

And Robin Ventura.

So I feel his legend is perfectly applied. Anyone who really knows baseball knows Ryan wasn't a pitcher who won a ton more than he lost, or was precise in his control, or ever won a Cy Young award. He was a K machine and a legit no-hitter chance.

Of course, he was my favorite pitcher when I was a kid - so I'm quite possibly irrationally biased. I'm OK with that. :)

by cephyn on Apr 1, 2008 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

That's fine, and things like that obviously set him apart, I'm just stating that it's not his statistics that make him common cultural knowledge, as you pointed out it's his velocity, no hitters, and general excitement that brings him the spotlight which is perfectly acceptable, it's just when I hear someone name him as the greatest pitcher ever cringe a bit. Most exciting? Probably, greatest ever? Eh.

by R.J. Anderson on Apr 1, 2008 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

Nolan Ryan...

....is one of my favorite sports figures of all time. I named my cat after him. He was one of the players that really got me obsessed with the game of baseball and I agree with this 100%.

He was a spectacle. Almost a legend in his own time, but he isn't the best pitcher in baseball and it isn't even close.

"It is like Menudo, where guys reach a certain age and are kicked out of the band. And they go on to be Ricky Martins somewhere else." -Billy Beane

by Stephen Webb on Apr 1, 2008 12:55 PM EDT reply actions  

None...

...although we are discussing getting a dog and we've already decided that his name will be Smoltzie.

"It is like Menudo, where guys reach a certain age and are kicked out of the band. And they go on to be Ricky Martins somewhere else." -Billy Beane

by Stephen Webb on Apr 1, 2008 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wouldn't say I'm a homer...

...I mean, I didn't pick them winning the World Series. Just getting there. ;)

"It is like Menudo, where guys reach a certain age and are kicked out of the band. And they go on to be Ricky Martins somewhere else." -Billy Beane

by Stephen Webb on Apr 1, 2008 1:24 PM EDT reply actions  

Yep.

"It is like Menudo, where guys reach a certain age and are kicked out of the band. And they go on to be Ricky Martins somewhere else." -Billy Beane

by Stephen Webb on Apr 1, 2008 2:17 PM EDT reply actions  

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