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Around SBN: Nevin Shapiro Vows To Bring Down Miami

How did Nate McLouth win a Gold Glove?

Can anyone answer this?

To me, this makes the Jeter Gold Gloves look understandable. He was -40 in plus/minus this year. In the numbers Sky presented to us, he was worth -16 runs in the field. I've never heard of a reputation for him, I see no evidence anywhere for liking him.

How did he win? How? I know the Gold Glove is a joke, but there still has to be some reasoning.

 

Also: Albert Pujols gets robbed. Again. People really don't like him. And Brandon Phillips did to Chase Utley what Utley's partner did to Tulowitzki last year, so I'll call that Karma.

Finally: Can anyone give me evidence that Maddux really deserved this and didn't just win, again, on reputation?

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maybe this is just me

but who cares? we all know these things are often jokes. should we be surprised when it happens again?

by larry on Nov 5, 2008 6:25 PM EST reply actions  

I like awards.

I would like them more if they were legit.

by philkid3 on Nov 5, 2008 6:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Greg Maddux

Led all pitchers with a +14 plus/minus this year, so. . . nevermind.

by philkid3 on Nov 5, 2008 6:44 PM EST reply actions  

100% he wins it

the year after he retires

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by Matt Klaassen on Nov 5, 2008 7:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Ellis will win

if/when he hits, or after he starts playing in a larger market…

"This is Rickey, calling on behalf of Rickey."

by scatterbrian on Nov 6, 2008 2:19 PM EST up reply actions  

...and his glove drops to -5 or worse

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by Matt Klaassen on Nov 6, 2008 2:40 PM EST up reply actions  

to be fair

he posted an update in which he says he pictures rolen in a cardinals uniform. As a cardinal fan who loves troy glaus, so do I.

the enemy's gate is down.

by SleepyCA on Nov 6, 2008 11:15 PM EST up reply actions  

And to be fair to me

he posted that after I mocked him for it.

lol

I did assume it was an understandable mistake, though, and did read the update when he put it.

by philkid3 on Nov 7, 2008 2:03 AM EST up reply actions  

One error

By staying away from the ball, there’s no chance of screwing it up.

Curt never met a buttered roll he didn't like.

by CoachOfEarl on Nov 5, 2008 11:00 PM EST reply actions  

Plus minus representations!

For the sake of something statty to look at, I put together lists of each league using plus/minus. They include the number reach winner put up at their respective positions (alone) and their MLB ranks at those positions. Then, for reference, is a list of the leaders at each position, along with their MLB ranks.

by philkid3 on Nov 6, 2008 2:28 AM EST reply actions  

American League

Winners
Carlos Pena: +14 (5th)
Dustin Pedroia: +15 (5th)
Adrian Beltre: +32 (1st)
Michael Young: -7 (27th)
Torii Hunter: -5 (19th)
Grady Sizmore: +7 (10th)
Ichiro Suzuki: +3 [-9 CF (25th), +12 RF (7th)]

Leaders
1B: Carlos Pena, 14 (5th)*
2B: Mark Ellis, +26 (2nd)
3B: Adrian Beltre, +32 (1st)
SS: Mike Aviles, +15 (7th)
LF: Carl Crawford, +23 (1st)
CF: Carlos Gomez, +32 (1st)
RF: Franklin Gutierrez, 29 (1st)

*Kevin Youkilis was a +14 overall, with a +8 at third and a +6 at first.

+Alex Rios put up a +15 in RF (4th) and a +11 in CF (6th) for an overall +26.

by philkid3 on Nov 6, 2008 2:29 AM EST up reply actions  

But Pedroia

while my opinion may be a little skewed here, does make great plays sometimes.

Well, I'll appreciate for you to keep my zingers outta your mouth!

by BoSox415 on Nov 7, 2008 8:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, sure.

Even the bad second basemen make great plays sometimes. Some of these guys just do it a lot. Imagine if you were able to watch one of them play on a regular basis!

Also, there can be only one winner in things like this. If a guy is number 2, that doesn’t mean he’s just as good as everyone between number 3 and number 30. It’s the relative difference in talent that matters, not who takes home the award.

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Nov 7, 2008 9:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Let me rephrase that

He makes great plays often.

Well, I'll appreciate for you to keep my zingers outta your mouth!

by BoSox415 on Nov 8, 2008 9:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Sadly

Gold Gloves are not solely on defense, offense is a factor too (see Derek, Jeter, and Young, Michael) and, of course, McLouth. Gold Gloves are closer to MVPs by position than actual defense.

Well, I'll appreciate for you to keep my zingers outta your mouth!

by BoSox415 on Nov 9, 2008 8:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Excuse my lack of knowledge but where exactly do you find these plus/minus stats?

by The Big Hurt on Nov 11, 2008 9:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Those exact +/- stats are from billjamesonline.com, a pay site.

… and it’s John Dewan’s +/- system. There are other defensive systems out there (although Dewan’s is pretty damn good). UZR (pre 2007 available only at tangotiger.net/mgl) and PMR (baseballmusings.com) are two other excellent ones. Another combined system can be found via the link to Justin’s stats in this article.

Maybe it’s time for another “What stats should I be using and where can I find them?” post…

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Nov 11, 2008 9:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Thanks a lot, much appreciated.

by The Big Hurt on Nov 11, 2008 11:05 PM EST up reply actions  

No... let's just let it go through piecemeal, it's more fun that way

anyone else noticed that use using RZR/OOZ and converting it to runs/plays ends up a lot harder on players, in general, than the Dewan’s stats?

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by Matt Klaassen on Nov 11, 2008 11:18 PM EST up reply actions  

National League

Winners
Adrian Gonzalez: -6 (25th)
Brandon Phillips: +17 (4th)
David Wright: +3 (13th)
Jimmy Rollins: +23 (1st)
Carlos Beltran: +24 (2nd)
Shane Victorino: +10 (7th)
Nate McLouth: -40 (35th)

Leaders
1B: Albert Pujols +20 (2nd)
2B: Chase Utley +47 (1st)
3B: Blake DeWitt +11 (7th)
SS: Jimmy Rollins +23 (1st)
CF: Carlos Beltran +24 (1st)
RF: Brian Giles +20 (2nd)
LF: Willie Harris +22 (2nd)*

Chris Young (23), Cody Ross (15) and Jody Gerut (+12) were all centerfielders with a higher contribution than Victorino.

*Harris was a +25 playing six different positions.

by philkid3 on Nov 6, 2008 2:30 AM EST up reply actions  

-40

is this the worst gold glove in history?

---
Juuuust a bit outside!!
http://balkingtraditionalism.blogspot.com/

by Jack Moore on Nov 9, 2008 4:04 PM EST up reply actions  

They literally could not have chosen a worse player, it would be like Jason Kendall winning a silver slugger or Daniel Cabrera winning the Cy Young.

by fredfotch on Nov 7, 2008 8:17 PM EST reply actions  

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