How did Nate McLouth win a Gold Glove?

by philkid3 on Nov 5, 2008 6:08 PM EST Comment 54 comments

To me, this makes the Jeter Gold Gloves look understandable. He was -40 in plus/minus this year. In the numbers Sky presented to us, he was worth -16 runs in the field. I've never heard of a reputation for him, I see no evidence anywhere for liking him.

How did he win? How? I know the Gold Glove is a joke, but there still has to be some reasoning.

Also: Albert Pujols gets robbed. Again. People really don't like him. And Brandon Phillips did to Chase Utley what Utley's partner did to Tulowitzki last year, so I'll call that Karma.

Finally: Can anyone give me evidence that Maddux really deserved this and didn't just win, again, on reputation?

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maybe this is just me

but who cares? we all know these things are often jokes. should we be surprised when it happens again?

by larry on Nov 5, 2008 6:25 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I like awards.

I would like them more if they were legit.

by philkid3 on Nov 5, 2008 6:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Winners like McLouth are what make these awards jokes.

by R.J. Anderson on Nov 5, 2008 6:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Because he hit really well this year.

54!

by joof on Nov 5, 2008 6:34 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

My thoughts exactly

Mother---- him and John Wayne!

by MerryGoByeBye on Nov 6, 2008 1:05 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Greg Maddux

Led all pitchers with a +14 plus/minus this year, so. . . nevermind.

by philkid3 on Nov 5, 2008 6:44 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Astounding. Between Pujols and McLouth I can see this was a strong year of mistakes.

by R.J. Anderson on Nov 5, 2008 6:47 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Hey, anyone want to give odds that Mark Ellis finally wins one of the like five GGs he should have by now?

5%?

Less?

Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.

by PaulThomas on Nov 5, 2008 7:27 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

100% he wins it

the year after he retires

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Nov 5, 2008 7:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Ellis will win

if/when he hits, or after he starts playing in a larger market…

"This is Rickey, calling on behalf of Rickey."

by scatterbrian on Nov 6, 2008 2:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

...and his glove drops to -5 or worse

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Nov 6, 2008 2:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Poof. He loses credibility there.

This.

by Blicks on Nov 5, 2008 9:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I hope you're kidding.

by philkid3 on Nov 5, 2008 11:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I am.

This.

by Blicks on Nov 6, 2008 12:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Love your avatar, btw.

This.

by Blicks on Nov 6, 2008 12:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

LOL

Thanks. I actually hear that a lot. I think I’ll keep it.

by philkid3 on Nov 6, 2008 1:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

to be fair

he posted an update in which he says he pictures rolen in a cardinals uniform. As a cardinal fan who loves troy glaus, so do I.

the enemy's gate is down.

by SleepyCA on Nov 6, 2008 11:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

And to be fair to me

he posted that after I mocked him for it.

lol

I did assume it was an understandable mistake, though, and did read the update when he put it.

by philkid3 on Nov 7, 2008 2:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I thought giving Aramis Ramirez the Hank Aaron Award was bad...

I’ve got nothin’. This one is a jaw dropper.

by BraveBronco0121 on Nov 5, 2008 8:21 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Must've been his AWESOME FIELDING %!!!

love that statistic.

by staplemaniac on Nov 5, 2008 10:19 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I really hope Raul Ibanez wins the GG for the AL.

J.K.L.

by acblue on Nov 5, 2008 10:49 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

+1

by philkid3 on Nov 5, 2008 11:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

+2

This.

by Blicks on Nov 6, 2008 12:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Damn.

Michael Young is almost as funny.

J.K.L.

by acblue on Nov 6, 2008 12:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Is this serious?

by philkid3 on Nov 6, 2008 1:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It's pretty astounding.

I was almost expecting Yuni to win, honestly.

J.K.L.

by acblue on Nov 6, 2008 1:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

There was a fair bit of talk about this at LSB today.

by philkid3 on Nov 6, 2008 1:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

He's better that Jeter!!!!111one

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Nov 6, 2008 12:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

One error

By staying away from the ball, there’s no chance of screwing it up.

Curt never met a buttered roll he didn't like.

by CoachOfEarl on Nov 5, 2008 11:00 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

+1

by Kinslerhomer on Nov 6, 2008 8:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Plus minus representations!

For the sake of something statty to look at, I put together lists of each league using plus/minus. They include the number reach winner put up at their respective positions (alone) and their MLB ranks at those positions. Then, for reference, is a list of the leaders at each position, along with their MLB ranks.

by philkid3 on Nov 6, 2008 2:28 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

American League

Winners
Carlos Pena: +14 (5th)
Dustin Pedroia: +15 (5th)
Adrian Beltre: +32 (1st)
Michael Young: -7 (27th)
Torii Hunter: -5 (19th)
Grady Sizmore: +7 (10th)
Ichiro Suzuki: +3 [-9 CF (25th), +12 RF (7th)]

Leaders
1B: Carlos Pena, 14 (5th)*
2B: Mark Ellis, +26 (2nd)
3B: Adrian Beltre, +32 (1st)
SS: Mike Aviles, +15 (7th)
LF: Carl Crawford, +23 (1st)
CF: Carlos Gomez, +32 (1st)
RF: Franklin Gutierrez, 29 (1st)

*Kevin Youkilis was a +14 overall, with a +8 at third and a +6 at first.

+Alex Rios put up a +15 in RF (4th) and a +11 in CF (6th) for an overall +26.

by philkid3 on Nov 6, 2008 2:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Carlos Gomez is unfair.

J.K.L.

by acblue on Nov 6, 2008 2:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

But Pedroia

while my opinion may be a little skewed here, does make great plays sometimes.

Well, I'll appreciate for you to keep my zingers outta your mouth!

by BoSox415 on Nov 7, 2008 8:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Well, sure.

Even the bad second basemen make great plays sometimes. Some of these guys just do it a lot. Imagine if you were able to watch one of them play on a regular basis!

Also, there can be only one winner in things like this. If a guy is number 2, that doesn’t mean he’s just as good as everyone between number 3 and number 30. It’s the relative difference in talent that matters, not who takes home the award.

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Nov 7, 2008 9:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Well, yeah.

So do most players.

by philkid3 on Nov 7, 2008 10:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Let me rephrase that

He makes great plays often.

Well, I'll appreciate for you to keep my zingers outta your mouth!

by BoSox415 on Nov 8, 2008 9:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

And some players make them often, as well.

Some more often. Like Mark Ellis.

And That Happened: Sports with a Hint of Sarcasm

by philkid3 on Nov 9, 2008 12:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Pedroia is quite good.

Ellis is way better.

J.K.L.

by acblue on Nov 9, 2008 1:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Sadly

Gold Gloves are not solely on defense, offense is a factor too (see Derek, Jeter, and Young, Michael) and, of course, McLouth. Gold Gloves are closer to MVPs by position than actual defense.

Well, I'll appreciate for you to keep my zingers outta your mouth!

by BoSox415 on Nov 9, 2008 8:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Excuse my lack of knowledge but where exactly do you find these plus/minus stats?

by The Big Hurt on Nov 11, 2008 9:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Those exact +/- stats are from billjamesonline.com, a pay site.

… and it’s John Dewan’s +/- system. There are other defensive systems out there (although Dewan’s is pretty damn good). UZR (pre 2007 available only at tangotiger.net/mgl) and PMR (baseballmusings.com) are two other excellent ones. Another combined system can be found via the link to Justin’s stats in this article.

Maybe it’s time for another “What stats should I be using and where can I find them?” post…

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Nov 11, 2008 9:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks a lot, much appreciated.

by The Big Hurt on Nov 11, 2008 11:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

No... let's just let it go through piecemeal, it's more fun that way

anyone else noticed that use using RZR/OOZ and converting it to runs/plays ends up a lot harder on players, in general, than the Dewan’s stats?

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Nov 11, 2008 11:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Harder?

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Nov 11, 2008 11:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

National League

Winners
Adrian Gonzalez: -6 (25th)
Brandon Phillips: +17 (4th)
David Wright: +3 (13th)
Jimmy Rollins: +23 (1st)
Carlos Beltran: +24 (2nd)
Shane Victorino: +10 (7th)
Nate McLouth: -40 (35th)

Leaders
1B: Albert Pujols +20 (2nd)
2B: Chase Utley +47 (1st)
3B: Blake DeWitt +11 (7th)
SS: Jimmy Rollins +23 (1st)
CF: Carlos Beltran +24 (1st)
RF: Brian Giles +20 (2nd)
LF: Willie Harris +22 (2nd)*

Chris Young (23), Cody Ross (15) and Jody Gerut (+12) were all centerfielders with a higher contribution than Victorino.

*Harris was a +25 playing six different positions.

by philkid3 on Nov 6, 2008 2:30 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs