Previewing The NL MVP
This afternoon, either Albert Pujols or Ryan Howard will win the National League MVP Award, resulting in one of two memes spreading throughout the blogosphere:
- Hey, look, the BBWAA got it right!
- Hey, look, the BBWAA got it wrong, yet again!
Either way, Howard's going to finish way too high. But, since critiquing the writers has gotten a bit old and I hate to give their award more publicity than it deserves, I want to present some other views on the NL MVP.
First, from an article I wrote in September, is the a list of the top NL MVP candidates using WPA and Justin's defensive stats. Surprisingly, Berkman's clutchiness puts him ahead of Albert Pujols. If we limit the winner to guys from playoff teams, Carlos Beltran is your man. You'll have to click through to see where Ryan Howard ranks, because, well, he's not in the top 25.
| NL Rank | Player | WPA | (WPA/LI) | rep | Def | WAR |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Lance Berkman | 6.7 | 4.7 | 1.8 | 0.1 | 8.6 |
| 2 | Albert Pujols | 5.6 | 5.7 | 1.7 | 0.6 | 7.9 |
| 3 | Carlos Beltran | 3.9 | 2.8 | 1.9 | 1.3 | 7.1 |
| 4 | Hanley Ramirez | 4.6 | 3.7 | 1.9 | 0.4 | 6.8 |
| 5 | Matt Holliday | 5.1 | 4.2 | 1.7 | -0.1 | 6.7 |
| 6 | Chipper Jones | 3.6 | 4.1 | 1.5 | 1.5 | 6.5 |
| 7 | David Wright | 3.4 | 4.4 | 1.9 | 0.3 | 5.7 |
| 8 | Pat Burrell | 3.6 | 2.5 | 1.7 | -0.1 | 5.2 |
| 9 | Carlos Lee | 4.8 | 3.1 | 1.4 | -1.2 | 5.0 |
| 10 | Chase Utley | 0.9 | 3.0 | 1.9 | 2.0 | 4.8 |
| 11 | Aramis Ramirez | 3.1 | 2.6 | 1.7 | -0.1 | 4.7 |
| 12 | Dan Uggla | 2.8 | 2.3 | 1.6 | 0.2 | 4.7 |
| 13 | J.J. Hardy | 1.7 | 1.7 | 1.7 | 1.3 | 4.6 |
| 14 | Cody Ross | 2.2 | 1.7 | 1.3 | 1.1 | 4.6 |
| 15 | Ryan Braun | 2.7 | 2.6 | 1.7 | 0.1 | 4.5 |
| 16 | Chris Iannetta | 2.8 | 2.2 | 1.1 | 0.5 | 4.4 |
| 17 | Nate McLouth | 3.8 | 2.5 | 1.8 | -1.3 | 4.3 |
| 18 | Russell Martin | 1.4 | 0.5 | 1.8 | 1.1 | 4.2 |
| 19 | Jason Bay | 3.9 | 2.8 | 1.3 | -1.0 | 4.2 |
| 20 | Brian Giles | 1.5 | 1.3 | 1.8 | 0.9 | 4.2 |
| 21 | Andre Ethier | 2.8 | 2.3 | 1.6 | -0.3 | 4.1 |
| 22 | Adrian Gonzalez | 3.0 | 2.3 | 1.9 | -0.9 | 4.0 |
| 23 | Randy Winn | 1.9 | 1.7 | 1.8 | 0.2 | 3.9 |
| 24 | Mark Teixeira | 1.8 | 2.8 | 1.3 | 0.7 | 3.8 |
| 25 | Jayson Werth | 1.8 | 2.8 | 1.2 | 0.6 | 3.6 |

Next let's take a look at what SBNation bloggers thought of the NL MVP race:
| National League | 1st | 2nd | 3rd | 4th | 5th | 6th | 7th | 8th | 9th | 10th | Points |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Albert Pujols | 13 | 4 | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | 218 |
| Lance Berkman | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 1 | 1 | 4 | - | 1 | - | 113 |
| Hanley Ramirez | - | 4 | 1 | 3 | 2 | - | 1 | 1 | 1 | - | 86 |
| David Wright | - | 1 | 3 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 2 | 3 | - | 1 | 95 |
| Chipper Jones | - | 1 | 3 | 3 | 1 | 5 | - | - | - | - | 85 |
| Ryan Howard | 3 | 1 | 1 | 1 | - | - | 1 | - | - | 1 | 71 |
| Chase Utley | - | 1 | 1 | 1 | 4 | 2 | 2 | - | 2 | 1 | 71 |
| Ryan Braun | - | - | 1 | 3 | - | 2 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 1 | 51 |
| Carlos Beltran | - | - | 3 | - | - | - | - | 3 | 1 | 1 | 36 |
| Manny Ramirez | - | 1 | - | 1 | 1 | - | 1 | - | - | 1 | 27 |
| Matt Holliday | - | - | - | - | 1 | 2 | - | - | 4 | - | 24 |
| CC Sabathia | - | 2 | - | - | - | - | 1 | - | - | 1 | 23 |
| Carlos Delgado | - | - | - | - | 2 | 1 | - | 1 | 1 | - | 21 |
| Aramis Ramirez | - | - | - | - | 2 | 1 | - | - | 1 | 2 | 19 |
| Ryan Ludwick | - | - | - | - | - | - | 1 | 3 | 2 | 2 | 17 |
| Jose Reyes | - | - | - | - | 1 | - | 2 | 1 | - | - | 8 |
| Brad Lidge | - | - | - | 1 | - | - | - | - | - | - | 8 |
| Carlos Lee | - | - | - | - | - | - | 1 | - | 1 | - | 6 |
| Pat Burrell | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | 1 | - | 1 | 4 |
| Brian McCann | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | 1 | - | 1 | 4 |
| Prince Fielder | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | 1 | - | 1 | 4 |
| Stephen Drew | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | 1 | - | - | 3 |
| Geovany Soto | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | 2 | 2 |
| Tim Lincecum | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | 1 | - | 2 |
| Brian Giles | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | 1 | 1 |
No major complaints right off the bat. But one thing I like to do is see how many ballots each player appeared on. Here's everyone to appear on at least five ballots, sorted by number of total ballots:
17 Albert Pujols
17 Lance Berkman
16 David Wright
14 Chase Utley
13 Hanley Ramirez
13 Chipper Jones
11 Ryan Braun
8 Ryan Howard
8 Carlos Beltran
8 Ryan Ludwick
7 Matt Holliday
6 Aramis Ramirez
5 Manny Ramirez
5 Carlos Delgado
To me, it's shocking that someone would leave Wright, Utley, Hanley, or Chipper off their ballot, and at least three bloggers left the players other than Wright off their ballots. Crazy.
How about the number of times each player appeared in the top five on a ballot?
17 Albert Pujols
11 Lance Berkman
10 Hanley Ramirez
8 Chipper Jones
7 David Wright
7 Chase Utley
6 Ryan Howard
And how about the number of top three ballots?
17 Albert Pujols
6 Lance Berkman
5 Hanley Ramirez
5 Ryan Howard
4 Chipper Jones
4 David Wright
3 Carlos Beltran
2 Chase Utley
2 CC Sabathia
1 Ryan Braun
1 Manny Ramirez
This demonstrates some obvious trends. Ryan Howard mostly received high-ballot votes or no votes. Same for Hanley Ramirez, but to a lesser extent. David Wright tended to appear on a lot of ballots, but nobody really placed him all that high.
Finally, let's take a look at the Internet Baseball Awards, run by Baseball Prospectus. The top ten finishers look like this, ranked by weighted point total:
1 Albert Pujols
2 Hanley Ramirez
3 Lance Berkman
4 Chase Utley
5 David Wright
6 Chipper Jones
7 Ryan Howard
8 Manny Ramirez
9 Tim Lincecum
10 Ryan Braun
But things are slightly different when looking at total ballots:
1406 Albert Pujols
1129 Hanley Ramirez
1024 Lance Berkman
952 David Wright
927 Chase Utley
815 Chipper Jones
557 Ryan Howard
543 Manny Ramirez
517 Tim Lincecum
Once again, David Wright was listed on a lot of ballots, but lower than other players who didn't appear as often. Ryan Braun and Ryan Howard were on the opposite side of the coin, not appearing as much (relatively), but ranking higher when they did appear. It's also interesting that Hanley Ramirez finished higher in the IBA vote than the SBNation blogger vote. And Carlos Beltran got zero love from the IBA. Personally, I side with the SBN bloggers on both those issues.
I know I said "finally" when introducing the IBA awards, but here's one last analysis. I'm taking Justin's final 2008 numbers and combining it with starters' value according to tRA and xIP:
RAR Player
98 Albert Pujols
81 Chipper Jones
79 Hanley Ramirez
76 Chase Utley
74 Lance Berkman
71 Tim Lincecum
68 Brandon Webb
67 David A Wright
66 Carlos Beltran
62 Dan Haren
57 Derek Lowe
56 Brian Giles
54 Matt T Holliday
52 Jose Reyes
51 Randy Johnson
51 Cole Hamels
51 Ryan Ludwick
50 Brian M McCann
50 Johan Santana
50 Ryan Dempster
49 Ben Sheets
48 Jimmy Rollins
48 CC Sabathia
45 Ryan J Braun
45 Dan C Uggla
My predictions of how that list will compare to the BBWAA ranking:
- Chipper and Utley will finish lower.
- Hanley will finish second (or third behind Howard).
- Beltran won't sniff the top ten.
- Giles won't sniff more than a couple ballots.
- The starters, as a whole, won't receive nearly as much respect. Sabathia will probably finish the highest, with Lincecum perhaps finishing in the top ten.
Comments
Beltran wouldn’t be the guy if you limited it to playoff teams as the Mets didn’t make the playoffs. Either way, Pujols is the guy, even from a devout Phillies fan.
by chrismchaines on
Nov 17, 2008 1:04 PM EST
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I'm sure he meant "playoff-contender..."
…but if he didn’t, then the next in line to win it would Pat Burrell.
Yep, Burrell wuz robbed!
by MatthewA on
Nov 17, 2008 3:50 PM EST
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That's sarcasm
right?
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on
Nov 17, 2008 6:34 PM EST
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Yeah, I'm dumb.
When I first compiled these stats, the Mets were in a tight race for the NL East (leading, perhaps?) and I remember writing something similar about Beltran. The Phillies won the East? Hmm, hadn’t heard…
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
by Sky Kalkman on
Nov 18, 2008 7:36 AM EST
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Good post
I love this site, but can I suggest maybe slowing down just a bit on the content? I mean, it’s better to have too much new content than less, but stuff gets pushed to the bottom of the front page faster than the conversations following can keep up.
Keep up the good work, though
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on
Nov 17, 2008 1:07 PM EST
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Agreed
And I too realize it’s a weird complaint, but this site has gone from not enough content to oh-my-god-trying-to-keep-up-with-all-the-awesome-content.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on
Nov 17, 2008 4:34 PM EST
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Agreed.
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on
Nov 17, 2008 8:01 PM EST
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Well thanks, all.
We’ll discuss this “problem”. There are worse ones to have…
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
by Sky Kalkman on
Nov 18, 2008 7:38 AM EST
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sorry
I didn’t mean to sound like a jerk — the content is great, but it’s hard to keep up with even when I’m goofing off… If someone was away from their computer for a 24 hours, even dedicated to the site, they would be pretty lost.
It’s not a huge deal, and it is definitely world better to have too much new content than none at all.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on
Nov 18, 2008 10:08 AM EST
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You dcome across idn't as a jerk. Tips, suggestions, and commentary are always welcome.
That was a sincere “well thanks, all”.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
by Sky Kalkman on
Nov 18, 2008 2:52 PM EST
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NO
I live on these sites at work. Less content means more productivity! I need something to do while I compile!
I could be wrong though
by staplemaniac on
Nov 18, 2008 12:33 AM EST
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Manny
I wouldn’t be surprised to see Manny in the top 5 of the BBWAA voting, if not the top 3. I don’t entirely blame them, but the sexiness of that story will be difficult for them to avoid.
by SkipT on
Nov 17, 2008 2:28 PM EST
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Manny got 4th place
Right in front of Berkman. Linky.
by mattybobo on
Nov 17, 2008 3:05 PM EST
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I don't know what's worse
Some of those votes or the godawful bright green background. Seriously I think I’m going blind now.
Anyone who voted first Lidge should lose their eligibility
by VictorW on
Nov 17, 2008 4:01 PM EST
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gahhhhhhhhhh
all of the green-sensors in my retinas have just melted.
by Sliderule on
Nov 17, 2008 4:25 PM EST
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Sweet jesus that green is horrible. Who the hell thought that was a good idea in the first place? Then, once seeing it for real, still thought it was a good idea?
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on
Nov 17, 2008 4:37 PM EST
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The BBWAA website is a nice metaphor
for the gaping schism between the “new” and “old” sports journalism. I mean, this is the official site of the folks who chose the MVP every year? Good lord.
by mattybobo on
Nov 17, 2008 5:12 PM EST
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Oh my god.
That’s the official BBWAA website? Jesus christ…I thought it was some five-year-old’s myspace site, and I clicked off too quickly to read the actual address bar.
Wow.
Space.
It's a problem we face.
So we never go anywhere.
We just stay in one place.
by hazel on
Nov 18, 2008 5:12 PM EST
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I can't believe they've gotten all the major awards
(more or less) “right” so far.
Furcal
by JI on
Nov 17, 2008 3:25 PM EST
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Don't worry, they're more or less guaranteed to fuck up the AL MVP
by not choosing Sizemore.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on
Nov 17, 2008 6:05 PM EST
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There were better players than Sizemore.
Furcal
by JI on
Nov 17, 2008 7:35 PM EST
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Such as?
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on
Nov 17, 2008 10:11 PM EST
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I whole-heartedly disagree.
By context-neutral stats, he was 10 runs better than ARod, who was 5-10 runs ahead of Pedroia, Mauer, Roberts, and a few other guys.
Guess I’ll need to do a WPA analysis like this one for the AL MVP. Predictions: Mauer gets a lot of top-ballot votes, but gets left off WAY too many. Pedroia wins. Sizemore’s not even near the top. KRod is ahead of Sizemore. I will be angry.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
by Sky Kalkman on
Nov 18, 2008 7:40 AM EST
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I think people forget that playing time counts
A-Rod might have been more valuable had he not got hurt, but that counts. It doesn’t mean he’s a bad person or anything, just that he was less valuable.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on
Nov 18, 2008 10:09 AM EST
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He would have had to play otherworldly defense for that to be true
I’d go with Mauer because he hit better and played a tougher position
Furcal
by JI on
Nov 18, 2008 3:02 PM EST
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Sizemore gets shafted
among the more boggling people head of him: K-Rod, St. Josh, Carlos Pena, Carlos Quentin.
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on
Nov 18, 2008 3:19 PM EST
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Curious as to what you folks think
of Brewer beat writer Tom Haudricourt’s actual ballot. Don’t think he represents Brewer fans. Please.
Here’s the way I voted:
1. Ryan Howard, Phil
2. CC Sabathia, Mil
3. Manny Ramirez, LA
4. Carlos Delgado, NY
5. Aramis Ramirez, Chi
6. Prince Fielder, Mil
7. Albert Pujols, Stl
8. Ryan Ludwick, Stl
9. Ryan Braun, Mil
10. David Wright, NY
The explanation is fantastic:
With the Cardinals finishing fourth, I voted Pujols seventh on my ballot. I don’t consider MVP to be “the most outstanding player” award and therefore don’t just go by who had the best stats. I like to credit players for lifting their teams to the post-season or at least keeping them in the race until the very end.
I understand that the Cardinals would not have been even close to the wild-card berth without Pujols, but I still like players who elevate their game in crunch time and lift their teams to new heights. And I thought Ryan Ludwick had just as much to do with keeping the Cards in the hunt as Pujols did. St. Louis did stay in the wild card race until mid-September, but mainly because the Brewers and Mets were gagging at the time.
And neck size to baby eating ratio.
by Jordan M on
Nov 17, 2008 7:20 PM EST
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Whoa.
Maybe the Cards should have tried to trade Pujols for Holliday instead of Ludwick. That might have worked better.
Geez, the wrongness of that part about Ludwick is mind-boggling.
by Sliderule on
Nov 17, 2008 8:05 PM EST
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nice
Maybe the Cards should have tried to trade Pujols for Holliday instead of Ludwick. That might have worked better.
That voter is at least mostly consistent in his use of using drama-queen criteria. Except for the whole Ludwick/Pujols part.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
by Sky Kalkman on
Nov 18, 2008 7:42 AM EST
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I like to credit players for lifting their teams to the post-season or at least keeping them in the race until the very end.
St. Louis did stay in the wild card race until mid-September
Whoops, he’s a retard. Unless “the very end” means you have to be eliminated on the last day. Otherwise, where the fuck is the cutoff? 5 days left? 8? I love how these morons make a random decision and then go back and try to find a way to justify it.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on
Nov 17, 2008 10:05 PM EST
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RJ, no response to Sky's mention of clutch?
Surprisingly, Berkman’s clutchiness puts him ahead of Albert Pujols.
Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on
Nov 17, 2008 7:59 PM EST
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Clutch exists in single season forms.
It’s not a skill.
by R.J. Anderson on
Nov 17, 2008 9:29 PM EST
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Yes, but...
MVP is a single season award, so shouldn’t we still look at clutch when giving the award?
Well, we can only hope that one day that our only complaints about the MVP is about who was more clutch or not.
---
Juuuust a bit outside!!
http://balkingtraditionalism.blogspot.com/
by jhmoore on
Nov 17, 2008 11:05 PM EST
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That's why being clutch is looked at in this analysis of the MVP
because it is a single season award.
And neck size to baby eating ratio.
by Jordan M on
Nov 17, 2008 11:13 PM EST
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In clutch situations this year, Berkman did pretty awesome
But it isn’t a skill. So for this season, Berkman contributed more. Going forward, WPA/LI is a more reasonable thing to look at, and Pujols wins big there.
by antimatter on
Nov 17, 2008 9:55 PM EST
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I'm pretty 50/50 in my mind about using clutchiness for this award.
Well, maybe 60/40 against using it. My reason for doing the WPA analysis was to show that IF you give credit for clutch, you can still do it objectively.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
by Sky Kalkman on
Nov 18, 2008 7:44 AM EST
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That all goes back to what "valuable" means.
I’m inclined to say that raw WPA is an okay measure of value. The clutch aspect of WPA is random, yes, but based on what did happen, Berkman contributed more wins to his team.
by antimatter on
Nov 18, 2008 11:19 AM EST
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There are good arguments against a real-time WPA approach, though.
In a 7-6 game, every run was just as valuable, if you’re looking back on things, just like a game in September is just as important as a game in April towards making the playoffs.
In other words, there are other approaches to valuing runs according to how they created wins than WPA.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
by Sky Kalkman on
Nov 18, 2008 2:54 PM EST
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Okay, let's use this sub-thread for interesting observations about the voting patterns...
Total ballots:
32 Albert Pujols
31 Ryan Howard
25 Ryan Braun
23 Manny Ramirez
23 Lance Berkman
23 David Wright
20 CC Sabathia
19 Brad Lidge
18 Carlos Delgado
16 Aramis Ramirez
16 Hanley Ramirez
12 Chipper Jones
9 Chase Utley
I want to know who didn’t vote for Howard at all. They are my new hero. Chipper and Utley got SCREWED.
Who voted Johan SECOND for MVP? Seriously? He wasn’t even the second most valuable pitcher!
Top Five Ballots:
31 Albert Pujols
27 Ryan Howard
15 Ryan Braun
15 Manny Ramirez
12 CC Sabathia
11 Lance Berkman
10 David Wright
8 Brad Lidge
8 Carlos Delgado
6 Aramis Ramirez
4 Hanley Ramirez
4 Geovany Soto
2 Chase Utley
2 Johan Santana
2 Brandon Webb
1 Chipper Jones
1 Carlos Beltran
1 Derrek Lee
Derrek Lee? Really? Who voted Carlos Beltran up here? They are also a new hero of mine.
Top Three:
30 Albert Pujols
26 Ryan Howard
9 CC Sabathia
6 Manny Ramirez
6 Lance Berkman
5 Ryan Braun
5 Carlos Delgado
4 Brad Lidge
3 David Wright
1 Johan Santana
1 Chipper Jones
Brad Lidge with four top three’s? Delgado with five?
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
by Sky Kalkman on
Nov 18, 2008 7:51 AM EST
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Hanley got screwed, too. And I'm kind of shocked at that, given that he's a big bat, with speed, and plays shortstop...
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
by Sky Kalkman on
Nov 18, 2008 7:51 AM EST
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Florida
OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG
by devil_fingers on
Nov 18, 2008 10:10 AM EST
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Also, I respect the two voters who put Webb top five.
And the guy who put Chipper second. And not the five who put Delgado third.
Oh, and I just noticed that Lidge was first TWICE. Huh?
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
by Sky Kalkman on
Nov 18, 2008 7:56 AM EST
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Bodes well for K-rod's mvp chances.
Space.
It's a problem we face.
So we never go anywhere.
We just stay in one place.
by hazel on
Nov 18, 2008 5:16 PM EST
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