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Around SBN: NFL Roundtable: Which Draft Pick Is Most Likely To Bust?

A sure sign of the apocalypse

So it's about 3 AM, and I'm doing what I usually do, reading ESPN.com.

I stumble across Buster Olney's article

It's insider, so you may not be able to see it, but if you can, there it is.

Anywho, those of you who have read BtB at all probably know most of us hold the majority of the writers at ESPN in the highest of disdains, with special disdain for John Kruk and Buster Olyney.

So today, I was reading Buster's article about the best fielders ever at their position. I won't spoil his list for you, but I can tell you I guessed most of it, with the glaring exception of 3B.

I guessed Brooks Robinson, who I was told growing up was the greatest 3B ever (and you rarely hear othwerise). Buster picked Scott Rolen. It irritated me enough to pull up BP at 3 AM to prove him wrong.

Only I didn't end up proving him wrong, persay.

Brooks Robinson:
530/19 seasons (in which he played at least 80 games) = 27.9 FRAR per year(Replacement being 22).

Scott Rolen:
250/8 seasons (leaving out 2002 in which he only plays 55 games, and excluding '05 so far to be fair to the stats) = 31.25 FRAR per year.

I wasn't ready to give up, because I didn't want to concede any point to Buster Olney, and moreover, I still believed Brooks to be better.

So I dove a little deeper, and checked out Brooks Robinson in arguably his prime against what we'll call Scott Rolen's "prime" (at least, with respect to his fielding, his 5 highest, consecutive seasons of FRAR, think Peak, but with FRAR, and made up on the fly to check out an interesting point).

Brooks Robinson: Peak FRAR: 188 (1966-1970). That's an avg of 37.6 FRAR per year. 37.6!!

Scott Rolen: Peak FRAR: 153 (1997-2001). That's an avg of 30.6 FRAR per year. That's 7 whole points below Brooks. Intriguing.

So I decided to do Scott's 5 best seasons, regardless of continuity (meaning not in succession)

Scott's Free Peak FRAR: 162. That's an avg of 32.4 FRAR per year.

Curious about Brooks's Free Peak? I bet you are.

Brooks Robinson Free Peak FRAR: 207. Read that again. That's an avg of 41.4 FRAR per year. 41.4 This series includes seasons of 52, 42, 41, 36, and 36 FRAR, respectively.

To perspective that, Rolen's highest season of FRAR is last year at 36, with his next at 34. 36 is Brooks 4th and 5th best, and his other 3 seasons absolutely destroy Scott.

Maybe it was because Brooks played for so long (although I think it has a lot more to do with Brooks having 4 seasons of FRAR below 20, with one as low as 14), but it seems to me, in his prime, Brooks Robinson would have, to borrow a line from my favorite literary contemporary, eaten Scott Rolen's children defensively at the hot corner.

Who knows, maybe someday Scott Rolen will put up seasons like Brooks did, or maybe he'll continue his consistency, and maintain his higher average FRAR per season, only time will truly tell. In 2 years, it will be interesting to do a comparison of Brooks peak (which was arguably from 22-32 for him, with respect to FRAR) and that of Scott Rolen.

So maybe Buster Olney was right, Scott Rolen is, sabremetrically, the better fielder, by about 3.3 FRAR a year. Call me a purist, a Buster Olney hater, or even just stubborn (I am, for the record, all 3), but I'll take Brooks Robinson, in his prime, on my hot corner anyday, and the numbers are behind me to back it up.

I'm just glad that some deep research remotely proved Buster Olney wrong, because if he'd been right, I'm not sure what the consequences could have been, probably something dire, like a Cubs world series championship or a Motley Crue double live album.

Entry link for the poll, tell me what you think!

Poll
Who is the greatest defensive 3B of all time?
Scott Rolen
5 votes
Other (tell us who in the comments)
0 votes
Brooks Robinson
8 votes

13 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 10 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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RE: Olney
I like Olney's weblog, because it is atleast informative and acts as news better than ESPN's own website.
"I don't set the rosters, I just make fun of the guy who does" - Rob Neyer

by Marc Normandin on Jun 21, 2005 7:54 AM EDT reply actions  

Brooks
I voted Brooks Robinson because Rolen isn't quite done yet. If Rolen continues to play defense at the level he has for the next three or four years, I'd have to consider putting Rolen there.

And Eric Chavez deserves mention, too... he's the AL's version of Rolen.

by Dan Scotto @ Beyond the Box Score on Jun 21, 2005 9:29 AM EDT reply actions  

having seen a lot of both
i have no problem putting rolen in robinson's class. he cuts off the bunt, he cuts off the line, he cuts off the hole, great arm. disclosure --- i'm the cardinals blogger on this network (Viva El Birdos). but i'm not just being a homer here. which player is "better"? it's a dumb question; they're #1 and #1a, it doesn't matter which you put in which slot.
Viva El Birdos http://www.vivaelbirdos.com

by lboros on Jun 21, 2005 9:48 AM EDT reply actions  

Rolen
Is a better player though, even if his defense is #1a. the defensive discussion by itself doesn't do much for me. I like to think in terms of his net production, so I'd take Rolen in a heartbeat when you throw his bat into the equation.
"I don't set the rosters, I just make fun of the guy who does" - Rob Neyer

by Marc Normandin on Jun 21, 2005 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

Very Interesting.
I rather like the idea of the FRAR peak.

by Richard Wade on Jun 21, 2005 12:52 PM EDT reply actions  

RE: FRAR
Do you think FRAA might tell the story better, since its going from average rather than replacement? We all know these two blow replacement level out of the water.
"I don't set the rosters, I just make fun of the guy who does" - Rob Neyer

by Marc Normandin on Jun 21, 2005 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

IMO
It always makes more sense to measure from replacement level.

by Richard Wade on Jun 21, 2005 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Tell Buster to look into his pants...
...and he will understand what Small Sample Size is....

by HalosHeaven on Jun 21, 2005 2:23 PM EDT reply actions  

voted Robinson
For now, and only based on defense. If you give me the option of which I'd rather have on my team overall, it's Rolen without any question. It's not like you're taking a big dive in defense or anything (if you are in fact taking one at all, because the numbers used here make it close enough as it is and Rolen is far from done) and Rolen is obviously the superior offensive player.

To throw another possibility in the hat: Clete Boyer, who by many accounts was as good as Brooks while Brooks got the awards.

by SC @ Beyond the Box Score on Jun 21, 2005 2:37 PM EDT reply actions  

Boyer verse Robinson
Boyer: 360 FRAR career
5 year Peak: 175 FRAR

Buddy Bell: 445 FRAR Career
5 year Peak: 164 FRAR

"I don't set the rosters, I just make fun of the guy who does" - Rob Neyer

by Marc Normandin on Jun 21, 2005 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

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